[Slugsy01]

So while I wait patiently for my M5 to come back from windscreen getting fixed, Akra exhaust and eventuri getting fitted, my Chairman got his new Taycan the other day so I got to use his old (3 yrs) Tesla P100D for the last week.

No science or data behind this post, only my personal experience and I have to say the Tesla has been dull as dishwater.

It's fast don't get me wrong, but soulles. It's lifeless to drive, feels like a fast box on wheels and it's bloody faffy with the tech! I managed to set off sentry mode the other night - not recommended!

Range is misleading as well, it said I had 275 miles of range but I got maybe 200 driving fairly aggressively.

What a pain as well charging, not as many around as you might think in the N East of UK!

Same happened in my Chairman's Taycan, I got in at 200 miles, went round the block (3 or 4 miles tops) and it was down to 170!

All in all, no chance I am going electric yet!

[nerdogray]

But can you imagine all of the carbon you reduced in that one week by driving it? Didn't it make you feel so good and warm? Nevermind all of the collateral toxin for those batteries, though. Don't look behind that curtain... or the other curtain titled "where do EV batteries go to die?" Everyone knows internal combustion engines are on the way out, and all of their vileness will go with them. Thank you, Slugsy. Your sacrifice made the world a better place.

[spuntyb]

I've test driven two Model S cars now, one in 2014, and one last year in 2021 before I grabbed this F90. Soulless is exactly what they are. The launches got old fast, and what you're left with is an Amazon Kindle with shitty battery life.

And don't get me started on how these things are supposedly "green".

I think if you need an appliance to commute, the Model 3 or Y is a decent choice, and I know folks with substantial car collections who love their Teslas for daily commuting, but if you're only going to drive one car, I'm just not sold.

[Al Pinã]

Just watched an interesting video from Shmee where he talks about the recent Volvo study that demonstrates just how dirty electric cars really are.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by Al Pin　

Just watched an interesting video from Shmee where he talks about the recent Volvo study that demonstrates just how dirty electric cars really are.

Mass producing anything today requires an incredible amount of natural resources, whether the final product is less impactful to the environment than its competitors or otherwise. Individual consumption is infinitesimally small compared to large-scale industrial consumption, which is why producing EVs will appease individual buyers, while helping car manufacturers more than anything in our ecosystem. I don't think EVs are a bad idea, but they aren't here to save us.

[irablumberg]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

Mass producing anything today requires an incredible amount of natural resources, whether the final product is less impactful to the environment than its competitors or otherwise. Individual consumption is infinitesimally small compared to large-scale industrial consumption, which is why producing EVs will appease individual buyers, while helping car manufacturers more than anything in our ecosystem. I don't think EVs are a bad idea, but they aren't here to save us.

Or maybe they are here to save us: https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/22...missions-myth/.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by irablumberg

Or maybe they are here to save us: https://cleantechnica.com/2022/02/22...missions-myth/.

The point sailed right over you. I'm saying we could invest in better infrastructure and mass transit alternatives rather than individual cars. The whole car manufacturing process is literally killing us. I love cars too, but they make little sense moving forward. Will be a looooong time before they go away, and as I specifically stated, EV's make a good alternative to ICE vehicles (as your article references), but they're meant to preserve car manufacturing, not our natural resources.

Here's an article I cherry picked too:

https://theconversation.com/the-myth...-trains-147827

[irablumberg]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

The point sailed right over you. I'm saying we could invest in better infrastructure and mass transit alternatives rather than individual cars. The whole car manufacturing process is literally killing us. I love cars too, but they make little sense moving forward. Will be a looooong time before they go away, and as I specifically stated, EV's make a good alternative to ICE vehicles (as your article references), but they're meant to preserve car manufacturing, not our natural resources.

Here's an article I cherry picked too:

https://theconversation.com/the-myth...-trains-147827

Sorry, I misunderstood your point. I agree that more intelligent use of mass transit in the US would be a great environmental boon. But it is only really feasible for urban areas with relatively high population density. Rural areas are simply too sparsely populated for effective mass transit.

[Demon Barber]

It's easy now in hindsight to see how Tesla promised way more than it could deliver. But it was also easy to see that in the beginning, and in the middle too.

[daddymalu]

I am a BMW fan boy through and through. I have had 3 m5s including and f90 and g05 x5m. I promised myself not to get a Tesla for personal reasons, but I could not resist purchasing a model s plaid. What Tesla had done to the electric car industry is similar to what the iPhone did to the phone industry. The eqs and current bmw electric line up would not be as good as they are if it was not Tesla holding up such a high standard. Tesla could improve the fit and finish of the plaid, add car play, use it's cameras to have a birds eye view, and have firmer suspension and it would be the perfect car. To be only selling cars for less than 15 years and have the fastest production car on the road is incredible. The basic autopilot is better than most cruise controls and the car is smart enough to open the garage when you get close to home is just a couple of the cool features that make this car special. My Tesla parks under the ///m sign. [IMG][/IMG]

[Bowser330]

Originally Posted by daddymalu

I am a BMW fan boy through and through. I have had 3 m5s including and f90 and g05 x5m. I promised myself not to get a Tesla for personal reasons, but I could not resist purchasing a model s plaid. What Tesla had done to the electric car industry is similar to what the iPhone did to the phone industry. The eqs and current bmw electric line up would not be as good as they are if it was not Tesla holding up such a high standard. Tesla could improve the fit and finish of the plaid, add car play, use it's cameras to have a birds eye view, and have firmer suspension and it would be the perfect car. To be only selling cars for less than 15 years and have the fastest production car on the road is incredible. The basic autopilot is better than most cruise controls and the car is smart enough to open the garage when you get close to home is just a couple of the cool features that make this car special. My Tesla parks under the ///m sign. [IMG][/IMG]

Doesn't the plaid air suspension use gps memory to raise suspension where you normally need too? Such a convenient feature that really any car company could do.

I agree completely, Tesla isn't perfect, however neither is bmw, actually far from it. Just read any number of posts on this f90 sub forum about the weak rods or even stock engines failing… or better yet a post where one f90 owner told others to avoid issues by driving the m5 like a grandma….what a joke, buy a 530i for that shit….The m5 is one of the best driver's cars period.

Tesla deserves credit for pushing electric technology forward and that's what it will be remembered by, because I do think the Germans will surpass them with their future performance EVs.

[daddymalu]

Yes the air suspension remembers where to raise the suspension. But the suspension on any m cars feels more stable than the one on the Tesla.

[Zubz]

Coming from a previous Performance Dual Motor Tesla owner, Teslas suck. They go quick in a straight line, refinement is garbage, suspension started to sound like an old creaky Cutlass. I agree, that what Tesla was able to accomplish in a short period of time (and still winning the infrastructure game) is pretty amazing, but the big boys are going to be creating cars now and they aren't going to be making bone headed decisions like steering yolks and no drive selectors.

[Greer]

[QUOTE=Zubz;29870591The big boys are going to be creating EV cars now and they aren't going to be making boneheaded decisions like steering yolks and no drive selectors.[/QUOTE]

Yes, bring it on.

[sullic]

First, let me say I have zero interest in EV's and I'm not an expert of the market of them. Neither am I a prospect for them. That said, traditional vendors face a major challenge in competing with Tesla. Tesla is pursuing a Henry Ford, Model T business model in a sense. They are focused on cost take out in manufacturing, and profitability per vehicle. They don't have bells and whistles because it impacts manufacturing costs and they focus on cost. It's cheaper to have a screen for all things versus buttons. Today, they claim the majority of profit in the EV market, and they are also one of the most profitable automakers per vehicle of any kind.

The German's lose money on EV's. Their production model is based around their ICE manufacturing process and Tesla's isn't. How Tesla designs and builds is much simpler and faster. Traditional vendors have to change how the manufacture and sell cars. Tesla doesn't build a car that isn't already sold today for the most part. Nothing is sitting on a lot per se. Yes, I'm sure they have some excess inventory, but little. They don't have dealerships taking part of the profit of the car, etc.

Tesla will have an advantage for a while, plus they are getting money from folks adopting their charging standard and usage of their network. Tesla challenge today is other China based EV manufacturers.

I could be missing something, but I don't see the math working for German's on EV's for a while. Tesla production costs will be scaling down, down, down over time, and the German's will be scaling up for a while as they transition. Tesla will continue to reduce price when needed to capture sales and squeeze other auto makers. It worked so well, that they now started to increase base prices again in Europe.

When Tesla's low price model hits, it will really put pressure on traditional vendors unless the buying market adopts my viewpoint which is that I have no interest in EV's, so no matter what price segment you offer, it's not for me.

Long live ICE, even if it is hybrid assisted.