03-12-2024, 12:39 PM | #1 |
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What track pads from FCP Euro?
Greetings,
My Endless track pads are cooked. I recently learned about FCP Euro's return policy where they will take back used pads and exchange with new ones even if they have been tracked. So what pads do you recommend (that FCP Euro sells) for track use? Caveat: - These will not be street pads. I change out my front pads for track days. - I'm not overly concerned if they wear fast as I can always exchange them for free. - If they overly abuse the rotors, I can get replacement rotors from FCP EURO as well and they will swap those used for new ones for no charge. - I don't have ceramics. - My vehicle does not have suspension. I read somewhere that if I go with Hawks, 60 might be a better option than the 70 if you don't have suspension. I'm an advanced driver. Car is a stock 2018 M3 with ZCP (444hp) Thanks, |
03-12-2024, 12:45 PM | #2 |
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03-12-2024, 02:54 PM | #3 |
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What tire sizes are you using? Brand and type; e.g., Yoko A053 200 TW, Bridgestone RE71RS 200 TW, etc.?
There’s really only two true track/race pads on FCP euro - Hawk DTC70 and DTC60 There are two street performance/light track use (not really sure what that means?) - Ferodo DS2500 and EDC Blue Stuff High performance/light track use pads cannot handle the pace of a driver in the fast beginner or intermediate level. On a brake heavy track with an intermediate level driver, you could go thru a set of these in one track day. Not sure why someone recommended Hawk DTC70 over the DTC60 (tire?) but the DTC70 is a better front pad. DTC60 is a better on the rear. Its COF is lower than the DTC70 over the entire temperature range. Assuming the DTC recommendation was tire related, I’d still recommend the DTC70 because (1) you’ll likely outgrow the DTC60 which means you’ll have to buy the DTC later on from FCP euro and (2) DTC70 has a higher COF and it can grow with you and/or your change in tire TW rating. This applies to the front. As for the rear, do you want improved braking performance then the DTC70 is the better choice. However, be aware that front DTC70 and rear DTC70 can potentially cause a dancing/unstable rear end. It happened to me on my e46 M3 dedicated track car and it wasn’t the best feeling under braking for turn 1 at VIR. Replaced the rear with DTC60 and the rear braking instability. I prefer running a more aggressive pad on the rear so i was surprised there was a braking instability. I have since switched to PFC pads for track/race compounds. PFC 39 and PFC 11 are phenomenal race pads. Actually, their entire lineup is great and you can find a front-rear combo for an. So my personal recommendation would be to use the DTC70 (front and rear) over the DTC60 as well as the Ferodo DS2500 and EBC Blue Stuff. Get the best pad you can buy. However, if you’re running 300 TW tires and have no plans to go with a higher grip tire then ignore I just wrote. In this case, I’d use DTC60 pads to minimize ABS intervention. DTC70 will definitely over power the tires. DTC60 will engage ABS but I think you’ll still have good modulation. |
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03-12-2024, 10:22 PM | #4 |
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Wow - great info.
I’m running square corner 18’s on Kenda 200 TW tires. I don’t bother with the rear pads so they are just OEM. I’m not overly concerned with trying to squeeze out max performance or best lap times… I like finding the balance between cost/performance/longevity. I don’t think I’ll mind brake modulation. I used to race open wheelers with no traction control or ABS so I can adapt. I thought I read somewhere on this forum that the hawk 60 was the more appropriate track pad for a F80 without suspension but I’ll just ignore that and go with the 70. I’m a pretty advanced driver so I could probably use the extra bite. Again, not worried about rotors cause my FCP plan is to keep rotating them out for new when appropriate. Thanks for the advice and I’ll feedback after Chuckwalla at end of the month. |
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03-14-2024, 04:43 AM | #5 | |
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03-14-2024, 08:42 AM | #6 | |
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Recommending a race pad(s) isn’t easy because there’s a long list of pad characteristics that are weighed differently by each person. I prefer a pad that has torque rise/increase with temperature (i.e., progressive friction curve, more brake torque at the end of braking), excellent fade resistance, strong but not overly aggressive initial bite, good wear resistance, low-medium disc wear, easy to modulate and with great release. I also like to shift brake bias to the rear by using a higher COF rear pad, combined with proper front springs, you can gain time in the braking zone. The DTC60 pad recommendation is probably due to its ability to overpower a stock braking system on street tires (torque . However, that’s just one brake pad characteristic. What do you want from a pad? |
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mike082802115.00 Fred E13.50 |
03-14-2024, 09:17 AM | #7 |
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So I fully understand the theory behind this statement, is it...: Shifting bias rearward forces the rears to perform a greater share of the braking work than they otherwise would, thus increasing the overall efficiency of decelerating the entire mass of the car. But this would at least be partially counteracted by OEM-like soft spring/suspension characteristics (due to excessive forward weight transfer, which could also lead to rear lock-up as an unwanted consequence with higher rear brake torque on a relatively unloaded tire), hence the second part of your statement about having proper front spring rates (which I assume to mean appropriately stiff)....
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03-14-2024, 10:28 AM | #8 | |
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03-14-2024, 01:27 PM | #9 | |
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03-14-2024, 01:46 PM | #10 | |
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03-18-2024, 02:01 AM | #11 |
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I was also looking into the DTC60s on FCP, but I saw a video that showed corrosion/rusting of the wheels from brake dust (that got wet) from those pads. This is my daily driver, so don't want the rims to get too thrashed. How big an issue is the corrosiveness of this compound, and is it avoidable if just cleaned immediately after a track day?
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03-18-2024, 02:56 AM | #12 |
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As a follow up, it looks like Turner Motorsport also has a lifetime guarantee like FCP, and they have a couple Pagid options. Any opinions on how the RSL29s would compare to DTC60/DTC70?
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03-18-2024, 10:13 AM | #13 | |
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03-18-2024, 10:35 AM | #14 | |
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Depending on how much you track, you could buy the RSL29 from Turner and DTC60 from FCP. Then compare them on track and see whether you like one more than the other or at least you’ll see how different pads perform in different ways. Like I said it took me an extremely long time to find exactly what I was looking for in a brake pad. |
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03-18-2024, 02:24 PM | #15 | |
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03-18-2024, 03:59 PM | #16 | |
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03-18-2024, 04:53 PM | #17 | |
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Second, unless you can live with brakes squealing extremely loudly and race pads that are quickly removing material from the rotors, you’ll want to swap back to a street setup. There’s two types of braking - abrasive and ablative. Ablative is when the pad is up to temperature and is riding on, and wearing away, the layer of pad material that’s been transferred to the rotor surface. This is how you want your brakes to operate on the street. Abrasive is when you have a brake pad with a very high COF that is being used at temperatures far below its operating temperature. Instead of riding on the transfer layer, the brake pad is literally machining away surface material from the brake rotor; i.e., pads are acting like a brake lathe. So not only will you have to live with pads that can wake the dead, you’ll also be going thru rotors pretty quickly. Third, I have had zero issues when swapping street and race pads. I use Carbotech 1521 street compound on all of my cars and have not run into a single incompatible pad material issue with Hawk, Cobalt, PFC, etc., when swapping between street and race compounds. I just do a quick two-cycle rebedding process. First rebedding is to clean the street compound off of the rotors + get the rotors up to temp and then a second rebedding to transfer the race pad compound to the rotors. |
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03-18-2024, 07:48 PM | #18 | |
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03-20-2024, 02:05 AM | #21 | |
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03-20-2024, 11:09 AM | #22 | |
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Will this be your first trip to the track? Just an FYI, beginners are usually more demanding and abusive to the braking system than an advanced driver. Advanced drivers are ON (threshold braking) and then OFF (not exactly like a light switch), quickly ramping up to ~100% of the braking performance and using that performance for a much shorter duration. However, for a beginner, they’ll start braking much earlier and engaging the brake pedal much more gradually, resulting in a shallow ramp that reaches only ~70-80% of braking performance. This means the pads will have to stay in contact with the rotors for a much longer duration to absorb the kinetic energy, which allows more heat to be generated and transferred to the braking system. So…please install fresh high-temp normal viscosity brake fluid (Motul, Castrol, AP Racing, Red Line, etc.) and check your DS2500, or any other brand, pad thickness after each session. |
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