[Villy]

Hi everyone,

So long story short, got the car last christmas (dec 2020) from Germany at 19k Miles, have been driving it as my daily ever since, including with rear child seat (3y old son) on longer drives.

I put 18k miles on the car in the past year, I would like to mention I DRIVE the car hard and not cruise too often.
My average fuel consumption on the last 10k miles is: 13MPG (18.5L/100km)

I have been really happy with the CCB, first time having them on a car with the exception this major issue today. I noticed weaker than usual breaking on my vehicle yesterday so pulled over to visually check pads/discs and surprise both front rotors have failed and are damaged. (Partial spalling and Friction layer detachment I believe are the right terms)

It's shocking to me that both front rotors failed at pretty much the exact same time and at 38k MILES!!! I mean what are the odds of this happening on left and right rotor at the same time.

I have a few things that I cannot explain so maybe someone with more experience with CCB's can help and I can figure out exactly what happened.

Q1. Could this have been intentional and someone hit the discs as I did find my front left side, driver door and hood scratched pretty bad while at a ski resort this past weekend so quite a coincidence..

Q2. Can CCB rotos fail like this if pads were not replaced and they should have been? (visually they still have 1/3 or half life left on them). Will probably know the answer to this once I get the pads and rotors removed and replaced.

Q3. Could they have failed because I drove the car during winter and cold weather, maybe they did not like freeze-unfreeze weather and somehow they cracked as mountains and stones fall during winter.. (freeze-unfreeeze and water getting between cracks). I doubpt this is the case as I'm sure I am not the only person daily driving an M5 or CCB car during winter. Not to mention it's been a rather light winter so far and I have only done maybe 3k miles this entire season!

Q4. Would BMW or manufacturer (Brembo ) care this happened at < 40k Miles, car is not in warranty anymore or I'm sure this would have been probably resolved through them. Regardless I will go Monday or as soon as I can schedule a service check/inspection for discs and brakes.

Q5. Can anyone tell by the wear sensor on the rotors if this was a premature rotor failure, manufacturing flaw/defect or other? (I have not removed or weight the rotors, will do so but with a chunk missing from them not sure what that will tell me now). For me they appeared at least half life left on them, so maybe another 40-50k miles. I know they should be good for 100-150k depending on driving style.

I want to mention my rear rotors are fine and no issues so far with those.

Repair is pretty much the cost of a 2h car. ~$10k both front rotors. 5k each.

------------------------

Other than this MAJOR issue which is looking like it's going to set me back $10k, I was planning to get CCB's on my next car!
I love that wheels stay clean from break dust and the performance when pushing the car to it's limits, once they get warm braking is INSANE.


(Last image with the rotor is from 2-3k miles back. Also added 2 images with front pads that I found, I can take better ones after I take wheels off the car in a few days.)


After every drive I always do a cooldown run/slow drive around my block to cool down turbos and discs, I have been doing this on every car I had.
I'm very cautious and always manage the car with oil changes every 3-4k Miles, spark plugs ~(10k) and all services before time.

I know I can still drive the car but is there a risk other than lower efficient brakes? How safe is it? Obviously will not drive the car hard until I get the rotors and pads replaced.

Thank you guys for any help or insight you have on this issue and looking forward to some experts thoughts!

[TrevorM3]

temp has nothing to do with this.

both failed because your pads are low... (at least to my eyes)

The ONE thing you cannot do with CC's is let you brake pads get too low, because they eat the rotor down quickly.. Hell, at 50% i'd consider changing my pads to be safe. Pads are cheaper than rotors..

BMW isn't going to do anything. You're gonna have to eat this.

[MA///M5]

Wear indicators in those pics looks good. Agree it is likely the pads. Although I have seen the pad stick to the ccb rotors and do that before. And it was temperature related. I also think there is an older thread in this forum about it.

[Boiler Up!]

How do the inside faces of the rotor look? Does the wear of the inner and outer pad match?

If there is damage to the inside face of the rotor you can rule out your potential vandalism hypothesis.

[Villy]

Originally Posted by Boiler Up!

How do the inside faces of the rotor look? Does the wear of the inner and outer pad match?

If there is damage to the inside face of the rotor you can rule out your potential vandalism hypothesis.

I am trying to have this looked at today if I can get the car up at the mechanic, being Saturday. Will follow back with pictures early next week or soonest.

[M5KEITH]

You have a high performance car w/ ceramic rotors that you drive hard they lasted 38K miles…. Makes sense that you would need new rotors…

If you don't want to pay $10K for new ceramic rotors replace with steel ones for less than a 10th of the cost.

[shawnhayes]

Delamination. Known problem.

https://www.rebrake.de/en/refurbishm...c-brake-discs/

Shawn

[ellisina4]

Sorry, mate, for your troubles … but u guys got it all wrong… rotors failed due to aftermarket wheels…

[choppedliver]

Originally Posted by M5KEITH

You have a high performance car w/ ceramic rotors that you drive hard they lasted 38K miles…. Makes sense that you would need new rotors…

If you don't want to pay $10K for new ceramic rotors replace with steel ones for less than a 10th of the cost.

CCB should last 100k+ miles.

[Villy]

Originally Posted by M5KEITH

You have a high performance car w/ ceramic rotors that you drive hard they lasted 38K miles…. Makes sense that you would need new rotors…

If you don't want to pay $10K for new ceramic rotors replace with steel ones for less than a 10th of the cost.

I think it's pretty hard to go back to steel brakes/rotors after getting used to CCB's for ~20k miles!

I have been considering this option but just can't see myself going down this route. My fear is getting the rotors replaced and having them posibly fail again..

[Villy]

Originally Posted by Boiler Up!

How do the inside faces of the rotor look? Does the wear of the inner and outer pad match?

If there is damage to the inside face of the rotor you can rule out your potential vandalism hypothesis.

I just had the car lifted, wheels and the front brake calipers removed to take a few photos and a video for my insurrance company as they requested. It is shocking to see the inside of both Left & Right rotors is intact, no visible damage and looks just as the outside of my rotors looked last week before I found my car scratched and loss of braking at higher speed. (Obviously the wear indicators are visible and should be after driving 40k miles, they are still smooth to the rouch and to me appear at least half life left on them if this delamination did not happen).

I am really starting to believe this was vandalism, too much of a coincidence having both left and right rotor go at the same time without any signs, the brake pads are NOT the cause as my mechanic ruled this out inspecting them. He also did state it is not normal wear or at least one of the insides would be damaged and look the same as the outsides.

Thoughts anyone?

[Villy]

Originally Posted by ellisina4

Sorry, mate, for your troubles … but u guys got it all wrong… rotors failed due to aftermarket wheels…

Yeah I'm sure I am the only one who put aftermarket wheels on a F90 with CCB's!

But I know some dealerships did mention random bs like that on other forum topics.

[Villy]

Originally Posted by choppedliver

CCB should last 100k+ miles.

Yeah this is exactly what I thought and was quite certain looking at my rotors after driving 20k miles and them looking the same as when I bought the car in 2020, next week I found them looking like the photos above..

[Boiler Up!]

Originally Posted by Villy

I just had the car lifted, wheels and the front brake calipers removed to take a few photos and a video for my insurrance company as they requested. It is shocking to see the inside of both Left & Right rotors is intact, no visible damage and looks just as the outside of my rotors looked last week before I found my car scratched and loss of braking at higher speed. (Obviously the wear indicators are visible and should be after driving 40k miles, they are still smooth to the rouch and to me appear at least half life left on them if this delamination did not happen).

I am really starting to believe this was vandalism, too much of a coincidence having both left and right rotor go at the same time without any signs, the brake pads are NOT the cause as my mechanic ruled this out inspecting them. He also did state it is not normal wear or at least one of the insides would be damaged and look the same as the outsides.

Thoughts anyone?

I think you're right about it being vandalism. No conclusive proof, but too many coincidences for me to believe there is a different cause.

[pbonsalb]

Looks expensive. Could a tiny pebble get in there and do that? The amount of debris on the roads in my area during winter is incredible.

[shawnhayes]

Hammer strike on the CCB causing delamination?

Oddly symmetrical. Vandalism reasonable possibility. But the problem is the disc delaminated. CCB's do this under different kinds of stress.

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

Would take knowledgeable vandal to recognize the gold calipers and think carbon rotors, those are the ones I want to target. Anyone who has taken a hammer to steel rotors knows it is pointless. And if I was that knowledgeable vandal who wanted to target the OP, I would ding all 4 of his rotors. So if vandalism is the reason, I think it would be a knowledgeable vandal who was not specifically after the OP and instead just wanted to do limited damage.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Would take knowledgeable vandal to recognize the gold calipers and think carbon rotors, those are the ones I want to target. Anyone who has taken a hammer to steel rotors knows it is pointless. And if I was that knowledgeable vandal who wanted to target the OP, I would ding all 4 of his rotors. So if vandalism is the reason, I think it would be a knowledgeable vandal who was not specifically after the OP and instead just wanted to do limited damage.

Pure speculation, but fair.

But....



Maybe?

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

That looks like vandalism to me. No other possible explanations, unlike what happened to the OP. Others have suffered very similar damage with different cars and not blamed it on vandalism. One company suggests it is a result of breakdown due to wear and that they can restore the rotor.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...1-1-gt3-2.html

https://www.r8talk.com/threads/carbo...-damage.13378/

https://www.rebrake.de/en/refurbishm...c-brake-discs/

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

That looks like vandalism to me. No other possible explanations, unlike what happened to the OP. Others have suffered very similar damage with different cars and not blamed it on vandalism. One company suggests it is a result of breakdown due to wear and that they can restore the rotor.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...1-1-gt3-2.html

https://www.r8talk.com/threads/carbo...-damage.13378/

https://www.rebrake.de/en/refurbishm...c-brake-discs/

Both discs look like delamination to me. HOWEVER, the symmetrical damage as you state looks suspiciously like vandalism. But, that presumes we have all the information.

I wish the OP luck.

Shawn

[G30 B58]

NEVER delaminates on the inside of the rotor?

The rotor doesn't know which side is which. Only the outside is easy to vandalize.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by G30 B58

NEVER delaminates on the inside of the rotor?

The rotor doesn't know which side is which. Only the outside is easy to vandalize.

Just like iron rotors, the inside runs cooler than the outside. Heat related damage usually occurs to the outside face of the rotors first.

This is one of the reasons I didn't get the gold calipers. Last set of gold calipers I had became "Brownbo's" with the heat from the CCB's. But JUST the outside body. Inside body was still gold.

Shawn