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      01-28-2022, 08:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by M6-Coupe View Post
This video is actually useless!
Carwow has another video showin M5C can go 1/4 mile in 11.1 seconds. They also have another video showing M8C GC can go 10.9 seconds!
I guess that stupid wing on truck is helping M8 to be slower
If you watch the video they cite the 11.1 quarter mile in it. We all know something is off with the M5C's launches in this video. That aside.. look at the track in this video vs the old ones. Notice something? It's dry in the old ones and wet in this video. So the CS ran a 10.9 in this video on a somewhat wet track and the M8C an 11.1. It basically tells you they can both do better. The rolling race kind of gives you a better idea of the difference. Don't have to worry about comparing exact launches etc. Someone posted the Russian video above of the M5C (unclear if modified at all) vs M5 CS. He did a 10.65 1/4 mile in the M5 CS.

I think they did a real disservice to the comparison with busted M5C launches but they have raced the M5C many times on Carwow and seem to hit launch issues with it pretty frequently. With that said.. it's kind of crazy to think there's some kind of BMW funded narrative here. You think they want to make their flagship M car look bad and make the car they have sold out of and won't produce any more of look better? To what end? Their goal is to scare everyone away from buying the car they still sell? This would be some 4D chess plan I dont get.
Carwow has so many videos when a car cant launch properly, they repeat again and again. One of them is the following video.
Are you telling me they tried several times and all the times M5C failed to launch?
I dont think so… a fair comparison is when all cars can perform correctly…
BTW I was joking "some one is trying to push M5CS"

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      01-28-2022, 11:11 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by KoenG View Post
When you feel scammed by BMW, wouldn't you better go for an AMG or CT5V Blackwing? Now you exactly buy into the scam again?
As an aside, AMG has abandoned the V8 market in the US for 2022. It may come back when AMG has the hybrid system connected to the V8, but for this year, no E63s, no GT63s, etc.
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      01-29-2022, 08:26 AM   #47
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The world would be a better place if auto journalists never did another drag race comparison. What a completely useless metric, especially in the age of Tesla.
These drag races are single handedly the reason why the CS has launched to high prices. No one cares about driving experience, magazine reviews, or any of that.

0-60, 1/4 mile are all that drives hype which in turn brings buyers.
such a one-dimensional way to look at cars.

they've lost the idea of what a "fun" car means, in modern times. It's far more than acceleration times and statistics.
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      02-05-2022, 11:42 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by MechX3M40i View Post
Carwow rigged the race to help BMW sells more M8 and M5CS instead of the 'plain vanilla' M5C 😂
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Originally Posted by MechX3M40i View Post
Carwow rigged the race to help BMW sells more M8 and M5CS instead of the 'plain vanilla' M5C 😂
Funny stuff man! Classic!
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      02-06-2022, 12:34 AM   #49
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I am so pissed and disappointed with my M5C after watching its video and the 1/2 mile times. Trading it for the new M8GC with that M Performance wing and that special M Drivers Package which increases my top speed to 164 miles per hr. Period!
Are you joking? How does viewing a video make you want to sell your car?
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      02-06-2022, 12:43 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by TEGRITY View Post
I am so pissed and disappointed with my M5C after watching its video and the 1/2 mile times. Trading it for the new M8GC with that M Performance wing and that special M Drivers Package which increases my top speed to 164 miles per hr. Period!
Are you joking? How does viewing a video make you want to sell your car?

Yes, of course! I was being sarcastic. I guess you didn't check my subsequent post in this thread.
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      02-06-2022, 02:32 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
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Originally Posted by KoenG View Post
When you feel scammed by BMW, wouldn't you better go for an AMG or CT5V Blackwing? Now you exactly buy into the scam again?
As an aside, AMG has abandoned the V8 market in the US for 2022. It may come back when AMG has the hybrid system connected to the V8, but for this year, no E63s, no GT63s, etc.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/44114/...g-wagen-report
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      02-06-2022, 06:21 PM   #52
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Interesting. Perhaps AMG figured out that it can get away with its V8 in the less stringent mileage / emissions category for trucks (i.e., SUVs), but not for regular cars.

A shame since I think the AMG GT, E63s and GT63s are a lot more exciting than an overpowered truck. But then I don't really care about SUVs in general, so others may disagree.
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      02-07-2022, 07:39 AM   #53
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I don't understand the arguments here. The M5CS is clearly a faster car than the M5. The rolling race tells the story. Someone posted another video on this thread and the CS clearly pulls hard on the M5C there too. It makes sense considering it's lighter and definitely probably has more than 10hp over the M5C. Another thing I find hilarious is people keep saying it's not worth the price tag. Name one car for 145k if you paid sticker that's a better performing car. The M5C is a great car, it has more luxury than a CS and for the price tag is insane. But unless you thoroughly drive the CS you won't understand why it's a better performance car. It's like my SVJ vs an aventador S, on paper you would think no way it's worth it. Go drive both and it feels like a completely different car and then you would understand why the SVJ is special. The CS is special. And for what the CS brings to the table, the mark up above the C isn't a lot at all. My two cents.
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      02-07-2022, 11:30 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by CarEnthusiast29 View Post
I don't understand the arguments here. The M5CS is clearly a faster car than the M5. The rolling race tells the story. Someone posted another video on this thread and the CS clearly pulls hard on the M5C there too. It makes sense considering it's lighter and definitely probably has more than 10hp over the M5C. Another thing I find hilarious is people keep saying it's not worth the price tag. Name one car for 145k if you paid sticker that's a better performing car. The M5C is a great car, it has more luxury than a CS and for the price tag is insane. But unless you thoroughly drive the CS you won't understand why it's a better performance car. It's like my SVJ vs an aventador S, on paper you would think no way it's worth it. Go drive both and it feels like a completely different car and then you would understand why the SVJ is special. The CS is special. And for what the CS brings to the table, the mark up above the C isn't a lot at all. My two cents.
In general, I think most of us agree that the CS is special and that at MSRP it is fairly priced compared to what a Comp would cost when configured as similarly as possible.

The frustration with this particular video and with other comparisons that have been published is that many of us would like to see a true apples to apples comparison to understand the actual performance increment from the Comp to the CS. Such a comparison would require first and foremost a fully functional M5C which was clearly absent from this Carwow video. Beyond that, the M5C should be equipped with the 789M forged wheels (not the cast boat anchor wheels often seen on M5Cs) and CCBs. To keep the weight down as much as possible, the M5C should also not include the exec package. Of course, such an M5C may well be a unicorn (particularly with the exclusion of the exec package). Nonetheless, that would be the best possible comparison as it would showcase the difference that the CS treatment makes. Of course in such a comparison, the CS should also be run on the same PZero tires as the Comp. If such a comparison was ever to occur, I would hope it would include timed laps on a road course as well as straight line acceleration and braking tests. We do have one data point in the 'ring times although it is unclear if anyone has run an LCI M5C on the ring. Regardless, the CS has a 6.03 second advantage over the published M5C ring time, which is good but not as good as I would have expected.

I see we now have one more data point. Again a pre-LCI M5C on street tires vs. the CS on PZ Corsa track tires. This time in C&D's Lightning Lap where the CS had a 3.7 second advantage. Again, a good result, but not as good as I would have expected.

Last edited by irablumberg; 02-07-2022 at 11:40 AM..
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      02-07-2022, 12:57 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarEnthusiast29 View Post
I don't understand the arguments here. The M5CS is clearly a faster car than the M5. The rolling race tells the story. Someone posted another video on this thread and the CS clearly pulls hard on the M5C there too. It makes sense considering it's lighter and definitely probably has more than 10hp over the M5C. Another thing I find hilarious is people keep saying it's not worth the price tag. Name one car for 145k if you paid sticker that's a better performing car. The M5C is a great car, it has more luxury than a CS and for the price tag is insane. But unless you thoroughly drive the CS you won't understand why it's a better performance car. It's like my SVJ vs an aventador S, on paper you would think no way it's worth it. Go drive both and it feels like a completely different car and then you would understand why the SVJ is special. The CS is special. And for what the CS brings to the table, the mark up above the C isn't a lot at all. My two cents.
Here in the UK it's £40K+ more not $10,000.
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      02-07-2022, 01:07 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarEnthusiast29 View Post
I don't understand the arguments here. The M5CS is clearly a faster car than the M5. The rolling race tells the story. Someone posted another video on this thread and the CS clearly pulls hard on the M5C there too. It makes sense considering it's lighter and definitely probably has more than 10hp over the M5C. Another thing I find hilarious is people keep saying it's not worth the price tag. Name one car for 145k if you paid sticker that's a better performing car. The M5C is a great car, it has more luxury than a CS and for the price tag is insane. But unless you thoroughly drive the CS you won't understand why it's a better performance car. It's like my SVJ vs an aventador S, on paper you would think no way it's worth it. Go drive both and it feels like a completely different car and then you would understand why the SVJ is special. The CS is special. And for what the CS brings to the table, the mark up above the C isn't a lot at all. My two cents.
the cs is definitely worth msrp. Is it worth 75-100k over msrp which is what dealers and private sellers are asking? I would say no way, but in this market some people are paying crazy prices for everything.

Also yes the cs is faster but that doesn’t explain how the M8 blows past the M5c from a roll when they have the same exact engine, tune, and weight is within 1% of each other.

The m5c lci traps anywhere from 127-130mph while the CS traps a couple mph higher. The video makes it seems like it’s nowhere near the CS which just isn’t the case in most real world objective tests.
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      02-07-2022, 04:30 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will0621 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarEnthusiast29 View Post
I don't understand the arguments here. The M5CS is clearly a faster car than the M5. The rolling race tells the story. Someone posted another video on this thread and the CS clearly pulls hard on the M5C there too. It makes sense considering it's lighter and definitely probably has more than 10hp over the M5C. Another thing I find hilarious is people keep saying it's not worth the price tag. Name one car for 145k if you paid sticker that's a better performing car. The M5C is a great car, it has more luxury than a CS and for the price tag is insane. But unless you thoroughly drive the CS you won't understand why it's a better performance car. It's like my SVJ vs an aventador S, on paper you would think no way it's worth it. Go drive both and it feels like a completely different car and then you would understand why the SVJ is special. The CS is special. And for what the CS brings to the table, the mark up above the C isn't a lot at all. My two cents.
the cs is definitely worth msrp. Is it worth 75-100k over msrp which is what dealers and private sellers are asking? I would say no way, but in this market some people are paying crazy prices for everything.

Also yes the cs is faster but that doesn’t explain how the M8 blows past the M5c from a roll when they have the same exact engine, tune, and weight is within 1% of each other.

The m5c lci traps anywhere from 127-130mph while the CS traps a couple mph higher. The video makes it seems like it’s nowhere near the CS which just isn’t the case in most real world objective tests.
The asking prices does not mean they are getting it. And it's all relative. I've seen more people at the end of the day only needing to spend 20k over sticker. At that price range you have a variety of cars but definitely nothing better than a CS.
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      02-07-2022, 04:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarEnthusiast29 View Post
I don't understand the arguments here. The M5CS is clearly a faster car than the M5. The rolling race tells the story. Someone posted another video on this thread and the CS clearly pulls hard on the M5C there too. It makes sense considering it's lighter and definitely probably has more than 10hp over the M5C. Another thing I find hilarious is people keep saying it's not worth the price tag. Name one car for 145k if you paid sticker that's a better performing car. The M5C is a great car, it has more luxury than a CS and for the price tag is insane. But unless you thoroughly drive the CS you won't understand why it's a better performance car. It's like my SVJ vs an aventador S, on paper you would think no way it's worth it. Go drive both and it feels like a completely different car and then you would understand why the SVJ is special. The CS is special. And for what the CS brings to the table, the mark up above the C isn't a lot at all. My two cents.
In general, I think most of us agree that the CS is special and that at MSRP it is fairly priced compared to what a Comp would cost when configured as similarly as possible.

The frustration with this particular video and with other comparisons that have been published is that many of us would like to see a true apples to apples comparison to understand the actual performance increment from the Comp to the CS. Such a comparison would require first and foremost a fully functional M5C which was clearly absent from this Carwow video. Beyond that, the M5C should be equipped with the 789M forged wheels (not the cast boat anchor wheels often seen on M5Cs) and CCBs. To keep the weight down as much as possible, the M5C should also not include the exec package. Of course, such an M5C may well be a unicorn (particularly with the exclusion of the exec package). Nonetheless, that would be the best possible comparison as it would showcase the difference that the CS treatment makes. Of course in such a comparison, the CS should also be run on the same PZero tires as the Comp. If such a comparison was ever to occur, I would hope it would include timed laps on a road course as well as straight line acceleration and braking tests. We do have one data point in the 'ring times although it is unclear if anyone has run an LCI M5C on the ring. Regardless, the CS has a 6.03 second advantage over the published M5C ring time, which is good but not as good as I would have expected.

I see we now have one more data point. Again a pre-LCI M5C on street tires vs. the CS on PZ Corsa track tires. This time in C&D's Lightning Lap where the CS had a 3.7 second advantage. Again, a good result, but not as good as I would have expected.
I think setting the car up to be exactly the same other than the weight reductions is missing the point of what the CS is. There are aspects of the car that numbers just won't tell. The driving experience is one. Personally if I wanted the more plush car I would have gone with a competition. If you want a car that feels a little more raw, a little more special and will be a little quicker than the CS is the way to go. For example if you take the lambo svj and the aventador S, the straight line speed is not that much different but the experience is completely different . That's the point of a CS model, a better experience
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      02-07-2022, 11:47 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by CarEnthusiast29 View Post
I think setting the car up to be exactly the same other than the weight reductions is missing the point of what the CS is. There are aspects of the car that numbers just won't tell. The driving experience is one. Personally if I wanted the more plush car I would have gone with a competition. If you want a car that feels a little more raw, a little more special and will be a little quicker than the CS is the way to go. For example if you take the lambo svj and the aventador S, the straight line speed is not that much different but the experience is completely different . That's the point of a CS model, a better experience
I understand your point, but I have not seen any definitive statements by BMW or by any knowledgeable third party that identifies the specific suspension or tuning differences between the CS and the Comp that may give rise to the "more raw" feeling. My point is simply that I would like to understand what is actually different mechanically between the two cars and then to understand how those differences manifest. In part I would like this information so that in future I could modify my Comp to get closer to the CS in terms of steering feel, overall feedback, etc.

Thus, for example, is it (as C&D just suggested in the Lightning Lap) just the Corsa tires on the CS that give it better road feel and steering feedback over the Comp, or are there actually different springs, shocks, bearings, bushings, control arms, or other suspension components in the CS versus the Comp?
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      02-08-2022, 03:51 AM   #60
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Stiffer engine mounts, more negative camber, suspension changes (specifics unclear), aggressive tires, buckets, alcantara steering wheel, less weight on the nose, less unsprung weight from the CCBs. Incremental changes that lead to a big subjective difference.
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      02-08-2022, 06:17 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarEnthusiast29 View Post
I think setting the car up to be exactly the same other than the weight reductions is missing the point of what the CS is. There are aspects of the car that numbers just won't tell. The driving experience is one. Personally if I wanted the more plush car I would have gone with a competition. If you want a car that feels a little more raw, a little more special and will be a little quicker than the CS is the way to go. For example if you take the lambo svj and the aventador S, the straight line speed is not that much different but the experience is completely different . That's the point of a CS model, a better experience
I understand your point, but I have not seen any definitive statements by BMW or by any knowledgeable third party that identifies the specific suspension or tuning differences between the CS and the Comp that may give rise to the "more raw" feeling. My point is simply that I would like to understand what is actually different mechanically between the two cars and then to understand how those differences manifest. In part I would like this information so that in future I could modify my Comp to get closer to the CS in terms of steering feel, overall feedback, etc.

Thus, for example, is it (as C&D just suggested in the Lightning Lap) just the Corsa tires on the CS that give it better road feel and steering feedback over the Comp, or are there actually different springs, shocks, bearings, bushings, control arms, or other suspension components in the CS versus the Comp?
Totally get this. I'll inquire and see if I can find out for you man.
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