[Pankrivoklat]

Living in Czech Republic, geographically in the heart of EU, this summer my and my brother bought two new BMW M5 F90 wich was delivered during august 2019. Both of them comes with BMW OS 7, Live Cockpit Professional and apparently MODIFIED ECU that causes completely loss of sporty sound. Although both cars are equiped with M Sport Exhaust – they can‘t produce burbles, crackles and backfires. Now the cars sounds like regular V8 automotive product without any touch of exceptionality, aggressiveness or M feeling.

Because that change was made by BMW without one single previous notice or explanation to customers and because BMW sold us a M Sport exhaust system (EUR 1500 on each car) wich does virtually NOTHING to sound of the car, we wrote a official complaint. Letter was send to Mr. Sebastian Mackensen, Head of Sales at BMW AG Munchen, Markus Flasch, chief of BWM M and also to chief of local Czech Republic branch. See entire document attached.

I will keep you informed about any response we receive.

At the moment it looks like BMW M5 F90 was completely ready for Euro 6 emission regulation including OPF mounted since begining of production in 2018. But BMW adjust ECU maping on the fly during the time, to precisely response to actual valid derivation of the emission requirements in EU. Apparently this is how it evolve:

BMW M5 F90 cars manufactured since begining of 2018 up to june 2019:

• OPF
• Original ECU tuned to fulfill of Euro 6c requirements.
• Car produce burbles, crackles and backfires.

BMW M5 F90 cars manufactured since july 2019 up to november 2020:

• OPF
• ECU tuned to fulfill of Euro 6d-temp requirements (wich became effective across EU at the begining of september2019)
• Car does not produce burbles, crackles and backfires

BMW M5 F90 cars manufactured since december 2020 up to whatever:

• OPF
• ECU tuned to fulfill of Euro 6d requirements (wich will became effective across EU at the begining of january 2021)
• We will see.

Interesting is that figures in imission norms EUR6c, EUR6d-TEMP and EUR6d remains the same. It is only the methodology of measurement wich changes dramaticaly since WLTP to RDE.

Sending cheers to our overseas friends in US and rest of the world which are unaffected of those pitty buearocratic and eco-nazis rules

[Nikolov]

I'd be curious to know if you ever receive a reply from either of these executives, although I'd expect to get a generic reply from someone far down the chain, if you get any reply at all.

You are correct on the MPE assumption - it's not being sold in the EU, only in the US. Retailers in the US are forbidden to ship it outside US too, I asked Also OPF cars are incompatible with it, so you can only install it on a pre 7/2018 EU car I believe.

[Pankrivoklat]

If they leave us without valuable reply we will bring the action to court asking to refund money we spent od M Sport Exhaust System (1MA). Because under current ECU setup it does virtually NOTHING on sound (and we lost aprox EUR 3.000 on both cars for nothing).

[Nikolov]

I think another member on here from the UK, that was in a similar position to yours, said his dealer refunded the M Sport Exhaust after he complained.

Personally I wouldn't be OK with just a refund of the exhaust if I test drove a car with burbles and pops and received a car without it. That won't make my car sound better or more fun to drive. I'd probably try returning the car.

[M5NL]

Thanks for the information and for doing this. I read the UK guy's thread here: https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1651399
I will get mine in a few days, also paid for the sport exhaust and also furious, the cracks and bangs are the reason we paid up for that car. Had I known it would sound like a sick twingo I would have stayed on a 550i and save a lot of money. Let's not even talk about the sport exhaust ripoff, how are black tips 1000€ +...
Will update with the reply from my garage here in the Netherlands but I have no hope to be able to cancel or get a refund

[F90M5C]

Originally Posted by Nikolov

I think another member on here from the UK, that was in a similar position to yours, said his dealer refunded the M Sport Exhaust after he complained.

Personally I wouldn't be OK with just a refund of the exhaust if I test drove a car with burbles and pops and received a car without it. That won't make my car sound better or more fun to drive. I'd probably try returning the car.

i totally agree with you. refunding only the exhaust is bs , it's just not the same product. bmw should really be clear on how the sound/car changed. i was about to order a 20 with Idrive 7 and laser lights and nobody at my dealership knew anything about this, i just got lucky that my current F90 was getting checked so i got an X4MC loaner and noticed the sound and started wondering and searching the forums.

[bpma]

Any response from BMW yet?

I wonder if the LCI will sound like shit too.

[ambletx]

Curious if this has anything to do with it and BMW is following suit.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/30/...sts-get-quiet/

[Nikolov]

Originally Posted by ambletx

Curious if this has anything to do with it and BMW is following suit.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/30/...sts-get-quiet/

Yes, it is due to the EU sound regulations.

[Outlaw1]

Originally Posted by Nikolov

Yes, it is due to the EU sound regulations.

Why don't you you just modify exhaust. Gut the PF maybe.

I removed secondary cat/resonator on my AMG GT and it made all the difference.

[Pankrivoklat]

Removing cat/resonator only emphasises level of noise. All that lovely burbles, crackling and backfires are connected to level of unburned fuel going through cylinders - which is driven strictly by ECU map.

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by Pankrivoklat

Removing cat/resonator only emphasises level of noise. All that lovely burbles, crackling and backfires are connected to level of unburned fuel going through cylinders - which is driven strictly by ECU map.

Very interesting. Now maybe the aftermarket coders can offer you an "upgrade" to bring back the sounds! And piss off the EC sound control freaks.

"Level one bring back the sounds
Level two, same as level one but a hundred more horse power."



Mike

[shoei]

Originally Posted by Pankrivoklat

Removing cat/resonator only emphasises level of noise. All that lovely burbles, crackling and backfires are connected to level of unburned fuel going through cylinders - which is driven strictly by ECU map.

Yep, this... I'm the opposite - car went in for a software update for faulty sensor and my car is twice as loud as before update... Pops sound like shotgun blasts where people on the street duck... It's embarrassing and way too loud... I was content the way it was before and now I went back to stock and it's still way too loud...

[M5NL]

Originally Posted by M5NL

Thanks for the information and for doing this. I read the UK guy's thread here: https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1651399
I will get mine in a few days, also paid for the sport exhaust and also furious, the cracks and bangs are the reason we paid up for that car. Had I known it would sound like a sick twingo I would have stayed on a 550i and save a lot of money. Let's not even talk about the sport exhaust ripoff, how are black tips 1000€ +...
Will update with the reply from my garage here in the Netherlands but I have no hope to be able to cancel or get a refund

So went to my dealer on Friday and surprise the car was already there, still waiting for my plates though. I could rev it and confirm even though I bought it in June the car has no pops and bangs. It is considerably quieter. Dealer can't do anything and was not even aware before I brought the attention to them. So I will write to BMW as well but seeing the person from UK in the other thread got nothing I don't have much hope of even a compensation. Dealer did some digging and confirmed it is a software update as many already mentioned in the other thread. Not being technical at all, but EU regulations on sound and CO2 emissions and the fuel gurgles and bangs had to be removed. Which also means that after your warranty period you could put them back with a software update. Unfortunately I have 4 years to wait

[luca09]

Originally Posted by M5NL

So went to my dealer on Friday and surprise the car was already there, still waiting for my plates though. I could rev it and confirm even though I bought it in June the car has no pops and bangs. It is considerably quieter. Dealer can't do anything and was not even aware before I brought the attention to them. So I will write to BMW as well but seeing the person from UK in the other thread got nothing I don't have much hope of even a compensation. Dealer did some digging and confirmed it is a software update as many already mentioned in the other thread. Not being technical at all, but EU regulations on sound and CO2 emissions and the fuel gurgles and bangs had to be removed. Which also means that after your warranty period you could put them back with a software update. Unfortunately I have 4 years to wait

Id6 or Id7?

[Simon H]

So, do we think/feel that BMW are now removing all the pops and bangs out of all cars, that are in the EU, when they are in for service, with a software update, to meet with all the new emission rules and WLTP ?.

[Nikolov]

Originally Posted by Simon H

So, do we think/feel that BMW are now removing all the pops and bangs out of all cars, that are in the EU, when they are in for service, with a software update, to meet with all the new emission rules and WLTP ?.

It wouldn't make sense to do it. Regulations are enforced from a specific date, so unless BMW were violating said EU regulation when they produced the pre 7/2019 M5s, it doesn't make sense to quiet them down afterwards.

[Pankrivoklat]

Originally Posted by Nikolov

Regulations are enforced from a specific date, so unless BMW were violating said EU regulation when they produced the pre 7/2019 M5s, it doesn't make sense to quiet them down afterwards.

Exactly. Previous cars should stay on their ECU maps untouched.

[Nikolov]

Originally Posted by Pankrivoklat

Exactly. Previous cars should stay on their ECU maps untouched.

That's the logical route, however if you look at it from a maintenance cost perspective, it's probably cheaper for BMW to have one ECU tune for all regions, instead of maintaining different ECU tunes for different regions, based on regulations.

Mercedes for example said that they're quieting down exhausts on all models in all regions, in order to comply with EU regulations (US included).

I wonder if any of the popular online media (Top Gear, CarWow, Grand Tour etc.) can reach out to BMW and get an official statement. Perhaps that course of action has a better chance of getting a reply, rather than e-mail BMW directly

[SenorFunkyPants]

I would be surprised if your complaint went anywhere.
The best you could hope for (including from court action) would be that BMW would refund the cost or replace the sport exhaust with a standard one....as BMW are simply complying with EU regulations for your (and our) market.
They are unlikely to produce an ECU map specifically for earlier cars to give back the noisier exhaust sound.
There is the option for owners of cars built before the regulation change to insist that their software not be updated at any service visit.
Maybe just enjoy the car with the benefit of not annoying the majority of people who aren't impressed by noisy exhausts?

[Pankrivoklat]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

as BMW are simply complying with EU regulations for your (and our) market.

Its not that easy. From our point of view its a little bit different story. A story about BMW not delivering expectated user experience. They promise to us (lot of official videos, sound clips, reviews in automagazines etc) cars with sporty sound and then they quietly (and quickly) changed setup to very generous boring sound. And they didnt mention this before signing our orders. Thats a kind of fraudulent behaviour affecting end user customers on very sensitive spot. Especially when buying expensive sport car from premium manufacturer.

[Nikolov]

Technically the burbles/pops are not explicitly mentioned anywhere in the car's specs and furthermore they've removed it to comply with EU regulations. I seriously doubt any EU court will rule in your favor. Maybe in the US if this happens there as well, but not here.