[DannyA]

Loving the F90 so far but one glaring fact is the grip that Quattro offers vs xDrive - in a corner with my old C7 RS6 you could literally stamp the throttle and it would just stick (That was 730 BHP) with the F90 I have had a few squeaky bum moments in the wet, it feels rear-wheel drive 95% of the time.

Out of interest I am on P-Zeros and I know they are shite, I always ran 4s on the Audi, I am wondering if anyone running these on the F90 has seen much better grip?

[kdeleon]

This car is made to give that feeling of a rear wheel drive car, but in the end, it’s 4wd is very good. Take a look at this video, it outperforms Quattro when getting traction down where it is needed.

Also, I don’t know why people think the P-Zeros are so bad. I have had them and the Michelins. They are different but it is not like one is totally crap vs the best thing since sliced bread.

[DannyA]

In the UK we have wet greasy roads 300 days a year! I live where 80% of my driving is done on country roads - in that use case, the Quattro system is 100% best. I do love the feel of the car, I just don't really see the reason to make the car rear wheel bias - this just means when coming out of a corner your holding back on the throttle unless you want to kiss a tree, and that is with full traction control on!

In regards to the P-Zeros I can personally feel a massive difference. You can see this in test results as well:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=223

Some of that difference could be the placebo effect!

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by DannyA

In the UK we have wet greasy roads 300 days a year! I live where 80% of my driving is done on country roads - in that use case, the Quattro system is 100% best. I do love the feel of the car, I just don't really see the reason to make the car rear wheel bias - this just means when coming out of a corner your holding back on the throttle unless you want to kiss a tree, and that is with full traction control on!

In regards to the P-Zeros I can personally feel a massive difference. You can see this in test results as well:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=223

Some of that difference could be the placebo effect!

Do you have it set to 4WD or 4WD Sport ?

[Aronis]

I watched that video and a few others. M5 did not "Outperform" the Audi...looks like they all do pretty well with that test.

I drove my '03 RS6 for 145000 miles and found it's grip was amazing in all weather. So far with the M5 I have not yet developed the same sense of confidence I had with the older car, but as time goes on I am getting there.

As an aside I think its plain stupid that the traction control is fully off in 2 wheel drive mode. Should have the ability to have it set for 2 wheel drive and have traction control, and you want to go drifting than another mode for all nannies off. The older car was all mechanical AWD and could transfer all grip to any one of four wheels. If you turned the traction control off on the RS6 and got into some serious loss of traction it would come back on! LOL.

My current '15 Q7 is the same way.

The newer tech in the BMW has electronic devices to transfer power and uses ABS to help slow down a spinning wheel. From a maintenance standpoint these systems are much more complex and as the cars age these systems could become a huge expense or make the car no longer viable. Not much point in a quality body construction with better paint and materials which can last 20 years if the power train becomes a cost prohibitive pain in the (*&)*&.

Mike

[DannyA]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

Do you have it set to 4WD or 4WD Sport ?

I just have it in standard 4WD - it still has lots of grip but as @Aronis said it just doesn't give me the confidence I had with the RS

[TheRealBob]

Thank goodness BMW chose to leave some level of driver involvement.

[brava09]

I dont think they are so different. Flooring the throttle in my previous RS5 in a sharp corner and the back end was sliding the same way my F90 M5 does.
Plus torque steering in both of them.

[DannyA]

Originally Posted by TheRealBob

Thank goodness BMW chose to leave some level of driver involvement.

Isn't that what the 4WD Sport and 2WD options are for?

[TheRealBob]

Originally Posted by DannyA

Isn't that what the 4WD Sport and 2WD options are for?

The 4WD Sport and 2WD provide a sportier rear wheel drive experience than the default 4WD, but it's impossible to draw an accurate comparison to the Quattro, because you describe the P-Zeros as being massively worse than the Michelin's on your Audi.

I don't recall reading any complaints in regard to lack of traction with the F90, so maybe time to switch tires and see how the Michelin's do on your exceptionally slippery roads.

[DannyA]

Originally Posted by TheRealBob

The 4WD Sport and 2WD provide a sportier rear wheel drive experience than the default 4WD, but it's impossible to draw an accurate comparison to the Quattro, because you describe the P-Zeros as being massively worse than the Michelin's on your Audi.

I don't recall reading any complaints in regard to lack of traction with the F90, so maybe time to switch tires and see how the Michelin's do on your exceptionally slippery roads.

Yes going to bang all 4 on next week. In regards to traction, a lot of owners have talked about it, like I said above it is due to the rear wheel bias, its "by design"

[powerenhancer]

Originally Posted by DannyA

Loving the F90 so far but one glaring fact is the grip that Quattro offers vs xDrive - in a corner with my old C7 RS6 you could literally stamp the throttle and it would just stick (That was 730 BHP) with the F90 I have had a few squeaky bum moments in the wet, it feels rear-wheel drive 95% of the time.

Out of interest I am on P-Zeros and I know they are shite, I always ran 4s on the Audi, I am wondering if anyone running these on the F90 has seen much better grip?

I owned a 2014 C7 RS6 (air) and 2016 facelift RS6 with the DRC pack. There is definitely more grip with the RS6 but for me the F90 M5 just handles better. It feels lighter in almost all driving conditions and particularly when pushing. 4WD sport option is genius and great fun in the dry. I'm running Michelins.

I just wish the interior was as solid in the RS6 as mine is full of buzzing/rattles. I also wish the ZF 8HP trans was as fluid and well programmed as in the RS6 because mine clunks and car lurches.

[LSM]

Audi's are front wheel drive based vehicles (except R8). They add Quattro which makes them awd however they have more weight over their front wheels and inherent flaws of the transverse engine design. That may feel as more grip.

The BMW is a rear drive based vehicle and is meant to feel rear drive biased. That said the grip performance and traction has never been an issue for me. Floor it and it goes as evidenced by the low 0-60 and 1/4 times recorded

[Archimedes65]

As a former owner of an RS5, IMO, I don't think the difference is the 4WD system or grip, I think it's simply the fact that the Audi has better feel in the steering and chassis than the BMW. Neither offers true sports car like feel, but I feel the RS5 was better and more precise than my M5. That said, I'd still take the M5 all day and twice on Sunday.

[DannyA]

Originally Posted by Archimedes65

As a former owner of an RS5, IMO, I don't think the difference is the 4WD system or grip, I think it's simply the fact that the Audi has better feel in the steering and chassis than the BMW. Neither offers true sports car like feel, but I feel the RS5 was better and more precise than my M5. That said, I'd still take the M5 all day and twice on Sunday.

Yeah, the M5 is a lot more fun - once you get it on the country lanes and open it up. I also feel like the power is delivered right up to the red line, you can have it screaming and it's still pulling.

[Vic55]

My chime:

Having owned multiple RS7's and R8's... remember that Quattro is a fixed split of tq front to rear so the grip is intense at all points. But the sacrifice is in the parasitic loss at higher speeds due to the fact the split stays static. I would believe this is why one feels the grip is so good on the Audi(s) yet also the reason the cars dont trap as high in the quarter as the F90's (RS7 Performance vs F90 with similar hp)

[ste0803]

Originally Posted by Vic55

My chime:

Having owned multiple RS7's and R8's... remember that Quattro is a fixed split of tq front to rear so the grip is intense at all points. But the sacrifice is in the parasitic loss at higher speeds due to the fact the split stays static. I would believe this is why one feels the grip is so good on the Audi(s) yet also the reason the cars dont trap as high in the quarter as the F90's (RS7 Performance vs F90 with similar hp)

As above, resurrecting an old thread I know but just wanted to say that the Rs6 as above is a constant split of power, the BMW system in the M5 (similar to the r35 GTR) is rear wheel drive unless it detects slip and then diverts power to the front, so you will still get some slip until the car diverts the power and then once traction is gained will put power back to the rear only.

This is why the rear tyres will wear much more quickly than the front and this is why I bought the M5 because I love the playful rear end. I didn’t need/want constant 4wd as I find it less engaging.

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by ste0803

As above, resurrecting an old thread I know but just wanted to say that the Rs6 as above is a constant split of power, the BMW system in the M5 (similar to the r35 GTR) is rear wheel drive unless it detects slip and then diverts power to the front, so you will still get some slip until the car diverts the power and then once traction is gained will put power back to the rear only.

This is why the rear tyres will wear much more quickly than the front and this is why I bought the M5 because I love the playful rear end. I didn’t need/want constant 4wd as I find it less engaging.

This makes a lot of sense; I am a total novice when it comes to engineering and was wondering why my rear tires were wearing out so much faster than the front ones on my F90.

[DannyA]

The new RS6 is a 4060 split so I wonder if they will wear like the F90

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by DannyA

The new RS6 is a 4060 split so I wonder if they will wear like the F90

I drove an 03' RS6 for 15 years. It wore the rears more than the front. I went through many sets of summer and winter tires. It was a square setup so rotating front to back was the easy fix. With the non-square setup of the M5, you have to pay for more rubber for the rear than the front.

Mike