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BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 Pricing, Ordering, Tracking, and European Delivery    Ordering 2020 next week, a bit of help please...

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      08-22-2019, 10:41 AM   #23
vitaly
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Originally Posted by Hockeytyme View Post
I don't understand where everyone is getting 10% from and thinking they can get that when my invoice on my last few cars clearly has shown that the cars MSRP's are marked up 6-8% above invoice. Getting a car at 10% off would be below invoice and unless there is a BMW rebate involved I don't see how it's possible.

If you buy a car under 50K you can probably get 300-500 above invoice. When the cars are more expensive and in more demand you will be looking at 1000 or more over invoice in most cases. And then there is the case where I spent 50k extra to get the first Aston Martin DBS in the CA...haha

Seriously, am I missing something? The only thing I can think of is if you guys are going off of dealer added addendum sheets where they mark the car up above MSRP, going off of dealer added addendum's, factory rebates, or the car has been on the lot for 3 years and they are willing to take a loss.
It's primarily because "invoice pricing" is mostly a sales gimmick these days. Dealers get manufacturer incentives. BMW has a stair step incentive program for them called AVP. If a dealer meets all criteria (sales, service, customer rating, etc - I don't know the list precisely), they get up to 5% of MSRP for every vehicle sold in the evaluation period. If they meet some, 4%. Then 3%. Etc There may also be trunk money or model/region specific trunk money at times.

So knowing invoice is useful but mostly as a starting point - the full picture is a lot more complicated than just $X above/below invoice.
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      08-22-2019, 10:53 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaly View Post
It's primarily because "invoice pricing" is mostly a sales gimmick these days. Dealers get manufacturer incentives. BMW has a stair step incentive program for them called AVP. If a dealer meets all criteria (sales, service, customer rating, etc - I don't know the list precisely), they get up to 5% of MSRP for every vehicle sold in the evaluation period. If they meet some, 4%. Then 3%. Etc There may also be trunk money or model/region specific trunk money at times.

So knowing invoice is useful but mostly as a starting point - the full picture is a lot more complicated than just $X above/below invoice.
Thanks for clarifying. I can see how the manufactures would use these tools as motivation and rewards to the dealers. But, I think it's very very hard for the average person to walk in and think they are going to get 10% off. Before I ordered mine I was looking at the E63 and it took me 2 dealerships before I could even get one to go 1000 over and I'm a cash buyer. And he would only do it if I took the car on the lot. I then decided I wanted an M5 and called BMW of Riverside where I had bought my previous M5 and two 7 series cars in the past and the fleet manager laughed when I said I wanted a car for 1000 over invoice. The second dealership too some work but I was able to eventually get them to 1000 over invoice which is about 6% off.
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      08-22-2019, 11:17 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytyme View Post
Thanks for clarifying. I can see how the manufactures would use these tools as motivation and rewards to the dealers. But, I think it's very very hard for the average person to walk in and think they are going to get 10% off. Before I ordered mine I was looking at the E63 and it took me 2 dealerships before I could even get one to go 1000 over and I'm a cash buyer. And he would only do it if I took the car on the lot. I then decided I wanted an M5 and called BMW of Riverside where I had bought my previous M5 and two 7 series cars in the past and the fleet manager laughed when I said I wanted a car for 1000 over invoice. The second dealership too some work but I was able to eventually get them to 1000 over invoice which is about 6% off.
your problem is OC
other parts of the country with less concentrated wealth play by different rules
I visited OC this past March and went to Fletcher Jones MB , and they were selling GT63 and G63 Wagons at 100K above sticker and have a line of buyers
my local dealer is having problems selling one GT63
on the east coast invoice is relatively easy to get on all brands including German cars
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      08-22-2019, 11:36 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by M3PGH View Post
your problem is OC
other parts of the country with less concentrated wealth play by different rules
I visited OC this past March and went to Fletcher Jones MB , and they were selling GT63 and G63 Wagons at 100K above sticker and have a line of buyers
my local dealer is having problems selling one GT63
on the east coast invoice is relatively easy to get on all brands including German cars
So true!
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      08-22-2019, 12:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytyme View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaly View Post
It's primarily because "invoice pricing" is mostly a sales gimmick these days. Dealers get manufacturer incentives. BMW has a stair step incentive program for them called AVP. If a dealer meets all criteria (sales, service, customer rating, etc - I don't know the list precisely), they get up to 5% of MSRP for every vehicle sold in the evaluation period. If they meet some, 4%. Then 3%. Etc There may also be trunk money or model/region specific trunk money at times.

So knowing invoice is useful but mostly as a starting point - the full picture is a lot more complicated than just $X above/below invoice.
Thanks for clarifying. I can see how the manufactures would use these tools as motivation and rewards to the dealers. But, I think it's very very hard for the average person to walk in and think they are going to get 10% off. Before I ordered mine I was looking at the E63 and it took me 2 dealerships before I could even get one to go 1000 over and I'm a cash buyer. And he would only do it if I took the car on the lot. I then decided I wanted an M5 and called BMW of Riverside where I had bought my previous M5 and two 7 series cars in the past and the fleet manager laughed when I said I wanted a car for 1000 over invoice. The second dealership too some work but I was able to eventually get them to 1000 over invoice which is about 6% off.
Right, it's all supply vs demand at the end of the day. If a dealer believes they can sell a car at a higher price, then they won't entertain lower offers. And that's fine - we'd all run the business (or any business for that matter) the same way.

Perhaps it's OC as M3PGH noted. How many dealers service the area? But regardless of that even, if enough supply of buyers willing to pay those prices, then getting notable discounts will be difficult. I believe South Florida is similar - I hear people constantly complain about Miami area dealers .

In the northeast, there's plenty of money but also lots of dealers and competition. Inevitably, at least with BMW, there's always that one dealer willing to play ball. Won't necessarily be your closest geographically, but something within a reasonable distance.

But nowadays shopping out of state isn't all that difficult and so lots of people do that to get a better deal. Personally, even if I didn't care about the $ delta, on principle I don't feel like overpaying for the exact same product. I put convenience and customer service into the equation, but it won't outweigh getting ripped off. My $.02
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      08-22-2019, 06:39 PM   #28
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I just placed an order for 2020 M5 base. I got roughy 9% off.
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      08-23-2019, 07:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytyme View Post
I don't understand where everyone is getting 10% from and thinking they can get that when my invoice on my last few cars clearly has shown that the cars MSRP's are marked up 6-8% above invoice. Getting a car at 10% off would be below invoice and unless there is a BMW rebate involved I don't see how it's possible.

If you buy a car under 50K you can probably get 300-500 above invoice. When the cars are more expensive and in more demand you will be looking at 1000 or more over invoice in most cases. And then there is the case where I spent 50k extra to get the first Aston Martin DBS in the CA...haha

Seriously, am I missing something? The only thing I can think of is if you guys are going off of dealer added addendum sheets where they mark the car up above MSRP, going off of dealer added addendum's, factory rebates, or the car has been on the lot for 3 years and they are willing to take a loss.
Thing is that invoice doesn't mean much anymore for BMW. Look at all several other models like the X5 where the 10% plus incentives is becoming the norm in the forums. It is how BMW has structured dealer profitability that many times offering 10+% is still profitable. The drawback is that the consumer can no longer tell what is a good or bad deal.
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      08-23-2019, 11:40 PM   #30
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You guys in the U.S are lucky. Over here in Canada I'm only able to get 6.50% + $1500 loyalty so roughly 7.50% discount on a 2020 M5
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