[LSM]

Originally Posted by KoenG

You give the impression that the M5 can't deal with the power already, only in a straightline because every brick of a car can. I only have to invite you to read some test reports then or ask some owners here.

You'll notice that the M5 doesn't have problems at all going fast around turns. It can even combine lateral & transversal accelerations incredibly fine like not many cars can.

Do you need more power in a saloon car? No, but already a 540i is overpowered then. Anyway, BMW will open the power tap further in the next gen to 750-1000hp. Apparently, they are inspired by the Tesla Plaid example.

BMW will be keeping up with the other auto makers

Amg GT 73e is coming with 800+ HP there is already a rumored Cayenne Turbo GT with 800hp.

I owned a M5 I personally don't think it needs more power. My biggest gripe was the unsorted suspension - its stiff for the sake of being stiff but doesn't transition into better more tossable handling. In addition BMW steering is awful - artificially heavy with zero feedback

As far as this CS goes if it actually did lose that weight that's exciting and much more welcome then more HP

BMW and most of automakers with ever increasing weight is discouraging. M3 AWD 4100lbs my gosh what's happened!!!

[AHall]

Originally Posted by M3PGH

the CS version will be better than competition
the question will be: is it 30k or so better ?
to most people, the answer will be probably not.. But that is a good thing, as they will not sell well and we can get heavy discount on them and can be leased cheaper.
Same thing happened with the F80 M3 . The CS version was 20 k plus more than comp
they sat around and then they were discounted heavily
I love my F80 CS and I can attest it is better than comp version which we had for 6 months prior to CS
for guys that like more details
F80 comp was 82 k MSRP , lease was 840 / month
F80 CS is 111 k , lease is 925 / month because of heavy discount
other lease variables were the same
to me , it is worth the 90 dollars extra a month
but without heavy discount it would have been 300-400 dollars extra a month and that is not worth it
so I will pick a CS version if history repeats itself

What is the difference between your F80 Competition and F80 CS? How do they differ as daily drivers? The seats shown for the M5 CS look less suitable for daily driving, although looks can be deceiving. The M5 CS will be a four seat car which could be a plus or minus for daily use. I saw a picture of the bucket style seats in the M2 CS concept and they are attractive, but use definitely loose the utility of fold down rear seats and comfort of the current rear seating arrangement. There appears to be an alcantera steering wheel. The interior trim seems to be the same, but they should definitely offer a high quality carbon fiber option.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

BMWNA did not have to "subsidize" the leases since it is BMWNA that over-priced the M4cs to start with. The US is probably the market that was asking for the biggest premium from M4 comp to CS. BMWNA simply offered discounts on an MSRP they themselves set too high.

They offered what we called in the States trunk money which the dealer was allowed to put in to the cap cost of the car (reduction on a lease). Splitting hairs but the factory gave the trunk money. This money came from the factory thru BMWFS and it was a set dollar amount that the dealer could give or hold in partiality when selling the car.

There is only about 11% from msrp to true triple net of holdback on these cars in the US--- BMW then gave the add on monies to help the move the car. Those monies were not originally available on the car when it came out here in 2018 around late July.

Edit: If memory serves me, the trunk money was around 15k. You add that on to a full monty 11% off deal and one could get a smoking deal on a CS (many did). Im not sure what was done in Canada though.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by LSM

BMW will be keeping up with the other auto makers

Amg GT 73e is coming with 800+ HP there is already a rumored Cayenne Turbo GT with 800hp.

I owned a M5 I personally don't think it needs more power. My biggest gripe was the unsorted suspension - its stiff for the sake of being stiff but doesn't transition into better more tossable handling. In addition BMW steering is awful - artificially heavy with zero feedback

As far as this CS goes if it actually did lose that weight that's exciting and much more welcome then more HP

BMW and most of automakers with ever increasing weight is discouraging. M3 AWD 4100lbs my gosh what's happened!!!

AMG’s steering is not better. Porsche’s steering feel and precision are on a different level but so is the price tag.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

AMG’s steering is not better. Porsche’s steering feel and precision is on a different level but so is the price tag.

That's debatable. I would say that both aren't very communicative, but as for natural weighting and synthesized feel, the BMW's just suffer more there, even compared to some Audi's as well. BMW just doesn't do EPS well.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Vic55

They offered what we called in the States trunk money which the dealer was allowed to put in to the cap cost of the car (reduction on a lease). Splitting hairs but the factory gave the trunk money. This money came from the factory thru BMWFS and it was a set dollar amount that the dealer could give or hold in partiality when selling the car.

There is only about 11% from msrp to true triple net of holdback on these cars in the US--- BMW then gave the add on monies to help the move the car. Those monies were not originally available on the car when it came out here in 2018 around late July.

Edit: If memory serves me, the trunk money was around 15k. You add that on to a full monty 11% off deal and one could get a smoking deal on a CS (many did). Im not sure what was done in Canada though.

I assume you mean BMW-NA when you say "factory" and not BMW-AG? If that's the case, I think we are saying the same thing: it is BMW-NA that overpriced the CS is the US, not BMW-AG.

For instance, in Canada, MSRP on my M4cs was ~88k USD, which was ~16k above a comparably equipped M4competition. Still expensive, but much more reasonable IMO.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I assume you mean BMW-NA when you say "factory" and not BMW-AG? If that's the case, I think we are saying the same thing: it is BMW-NA that overpriced the CS is the US, not BMW-AG.

For instance, in Canada, MSRP on my M4cs was ~88k USD, which was ~16k above a comparably equipped M4competition. Much more reasonable IMO, and I even got a decent discount above that .

Yes N/A- not AG--- I have no clue what the fuck those guys are up to LOL (grills cough cough).

[solstice]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Oh definitely, just pointing out that the target has changed. I am curious to see how AMG will respond with the GT73.

Agreed and thanks for updating me on the latest. With lemetier saying that 7:29 is “not even close” in a comment here I’m suspecting we’ll see a sub 7:25 from the CS.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by solstice

Agreed and thanks for updating me on the latest. With lemetier saying that 7:29 is "not even close" in a comment here I'm suspecting we'll see a sub 7:25 from the CS.

Doubtful.... full 10 seconds better than M5 comp? No way imo

There are videos of the CS running slower than the Comp on some track they were testing on

Now that was likely an anomaly and I am sure it will improve on the M5 Comps numbers but I'd be surprised if it beat either the Panny or AMG GT.

BMW has never really been great on the ring times

[xcusem3]

That's f*cking sad..... only 154lbs weight reduction? That's honestly a joke!!

[remmib]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Aren't these the same 789M wheels offered as an option on the M5competition?

Yes, sure looks like that, just a new color, but they've always been forged.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

AMG's steering is not better. Porsche's steering feel and precision are on a different level but so is the price tag.

Honestly I'm a huge Porsche fan but in the current Panny I think they missed the mark. It's a heavy sled and although the steering is better than the BMW it would be hard for me to justify the increased cost

Apparently much has been righted in the LCI that's coming this spring. Time will tell

Obv the Porsche sports cars are on another level and after a different market. They def know what they're doing with suspension, steering and PDK

Masters of less HP light weight and great performance - in the sports cars and even their SUV's imo

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by xcusem3

That's f*cking sad..... only 154lbs weight reduction? That's honestly a joke!!

that's a pretty good weight reduction!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by remmib

Yes, sure looks like that, just a new color, but they've always been forged.

Yup

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by LSM

Honestly I'm a huge Porsche fan but in the current Panny I think they missed the mark. It's a heavy sled and although the steering is better than the BMW it would be hard for me to justify the increased cost

Apparently much has been righted in the LCI that's coming this spring. Time will tell

Obv the Porsche sports cars are on another level and after a different market. They def know what they're doing with suspension, steering and PDK

Masters of less HP light weight and great performance - in the sports cars and even their SUV's imo

Agree, I find the Panny a bit too isolated, by Porsche standards at least, although still capable, just more relaxed. While its often compared to the M5 and E63, I see it more as a short-wheelbase full-size flagship sedan/wagon, the next class up, similar of a position as to say the old sporty-shorty 7er especially since now, in the US at least, the 7, S, and A8 are all long-wheelbase only.

[xcusem3]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

that's a pretty good weight reduction!

The speakers for the stereo way over 200lbs alone..!? this is supposed to be the CS model!?!??? A joke I say.

300lbs+ weight reduction would have been a good start

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by xcusem3

The speakers for the stereo way over 200lbs alone..!? this is supposed to be the CS model!?!??? A joke I say.

300lbs+ weight reduction would have been a good start

Where are you pulling this info from? As someone who spends a good portion of my life gutting street cars to turn them into track cars for my customers, especially BMWs, I'll tell you the entire sound system is nowhere near 200lbs.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by LSM

Doubtful.... full 10 seconds better than M5 comp? No way imo

There are videos of the CS running slower than the Comp on some track they were testing on

Now that was likely an anomaly and I am sure it will improve on the M5 Comps numbers but I'd be surprised if it beat either the Panny or AMG GT.

BMW has never really been great on the ring times

We need to keep in mind that the 7:36 achieved by the M5C was during a AM&S/SA supertest, which is usually a fair bit slower than what factory drivers can achieve. The AM&S/SA supertest driver gets only one warm-up lap and one hot lap in car he is not familiar with. Factory drivers can be quite faster being vary familiar with the car and getting multiple laps to record the fastest lap (examples: M4GTS 7:28 vs 7:37 or M4cs 7:35 vs 7:42). The Panamera and GT63S are both "factory" laps. IMO a sub 7:27 lap is possible for the M5cs with the PZ-Corsa and a factory driver.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by xcusem3

The speakers for the stereo way over 200lbs alone..!? this is supposed to be the CS model!?!??? A joke I say.

300lbs+ weight reduction would have been a good start

I think you are confusing the CS designation with the CSL, GTS, CRT cars. A CS car is not a street legal track car with rear seat delete, plastic windows type of mods. 154 lbs is commendable for a CS. Especially when achieved on a car that lost weight from it predecessor while adding AWD.

Other comments that BMW should have added power instead of weight reduction are even stranger. The negativity towards this car is surprising. The base and competition is still offered if a CS M5 isn’t people’s cup of tea.

Personally I really like what BMW done here and it seems like a great CS M5.

[M3PGH]

Originally Posted by AHall

What is the difference between your F80 Competition and F80 CS? How do they differ as daily drivers? The seats shown for the M5 CS look less suitable for daily driving, although looks can be deceiving. The M5 CS will be a four seat car which could be a plus or minus for daily use. I saw a picture of the bucket style seats in the M2 CS concept and they are attractive, but use definitely loose the utility of fold down rear seats and comfort of the current rear seating arrangement. There appears to be an alcantera steering wheel. The interior trim seems to be the same, but they should definitely offer a high quality carbon fiber option.

I don't drive the CS as much as the M5C is my dd
but in short
CS has better power band
steering is sharper and handles better. It has staggered set up for wheels
dampening is better. Actually softer than comp which was a surprise
looks better
sounded a little better initially and way better now as it has Full EXHAUST
feels more special

[IB M]

Yes - please I'll take one.

Well done and penultimate machine for long distance high way trips, daily to the office with kids and clients in back seats, stop light bandit and track day as needed machine.

[Law]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Aren't these the same 789M wheels offered as an option on the M5competition?

Originally Posted by remmib

Yes, sure looks like that, just a new color, but they've always been forged.

That's correct, they appear to be the same wheel (as the M5 Comp) as was also discussed here.

I've amended my post to clear the ambiguity surrounding that.