[shawnhayes]

So, my carbon ceramics had shown a little wear. No way was I sacrificing a set of $4000 per rotor rotors. I had been thinking about when this day would come from the minute my M5 CS order became reality.

The plan became I would try steel rotors without changing ANYTHING else. It worked.

I have just finished a weekend with THSCC at VIR this past weekend. The steel brakes with the carbon ceramic pads were AWESOME. They were able to overcome traction on Toyo Proxes RRs and engage abs. No easy feat for any brake pads, even the most aggressive.

These are both rotors and pads after a full track weekend nd the drive home. Great transfer layer, and great track and street performance. Squeal is minimal if not none…

Shawn

[Neptune7]

That’s great. Do you notice any change in steering feel or dynamics from the slight change in unsprung weight?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Neptune7

That’s great. Do you notice any change in steering feel or dynamics from the slight change in unsprung weight?

Maybe on turn in. The front end felt more planted while trail braking, maybe the weight on the front tires under heavy braking. Still felt good though.

Shawn

[PDOT]

What's your wheel and tire setup?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by PDOT

What's your wheel and tire setup?

20 x 10.5 generic wheel from tire rack in rear wheel offset. 5mm spacer in front to clear spring. $99 per wheel. No joke. (In house name for tire rack, axis I think…)

Toyo proxes rr 285/30 r20 track tire. Able to rotate all the way round the car for good wear characteristics.

Traction is awesome

Shawn
.

[boost3dx]

Awesome, thanks Shawn. Guess I know what I gotta do.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by boost3dx

Awesome, thanks Shawn. Guess I know what I gotta do.

Well, you don't HAVE to...



It's just this = $4000. Per corner.....

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

Do you feel like you lost braking power under the severe conditions that come with track driving? Throughout the session or only at the end? In dpirited street driving?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Do you feel like you lost braking power under the severe conditions that come with track driving? Throughout the session or only at the end? In dpirited street driving?

I thought the M5 CS was better than my 2018 on braking. Converting the CS to metal I haven't noticed much. Maybe 10 feet or less. Considering that this beast you have to get into heavy braking at the six marker most of the time due to power and weight, the six marker +10 feet ain't much.

If I were competing for actual racing trophies and money? Sure, 10 feet makes a difference.

And, this test is at VIR. Not repeated brake zone after brake zone after zone with no cooling. So that equalizes carbons with metals a lot.

Shawn

[boost3dx]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Well, you don't HAVE to...



It's just this = $4000. Per corner.....

Shawn

Exactly. lol

[shawnhayes]

Confirmed….

Metal pads DO fit the CCB calipers. The CCB pads OEM from BMW (which are made by pagid) are slightly larger for more swept area, but the metal ones are just fine.

You are also looking at Pagid endurance pads now sold by ECS. They last longer under track conditions than stock metal or CCB pads. But, they do so at sacrifice of some braking. They are still capable of making my worn Toyo proxes RR’s slide so they are more than adequate. Just thought anybody who didn’t feel like springing for $4000 rotors would like an alternative….

Shawn

[PDOT]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Confirmed….

Metal pads DO fit the CCB calipers. The CCB pads OEM from BMW (which are made by pagid) are slightly larger for more swept area, but the metal ones are just fine.

You are also looking at Pagid endurance pads now sold by ECS. They last longer under track conditions than stock metal or CCB pads. But, they do so at sacrifice of some braking. They are still capable of making my worn Toyo proxes RR’s slide so they are more than adequate. Just thought anybody who didn’t feel like springing for $4000 rotors would like an alternative….

Shawn

The Pagid yellow brake worst than the stockers?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by PDOT

The Pagid yellow brake worst than the stockers?

For stopping power? I’m afraid so. One full brake marker. I lost one entire second per lap (although that could have been my heat cycled out Toyo’s)

But remember, pagid yellows are usually endurance pads. Designed to last LONG not HARD. I installed them when I got to the brake wear warning because my next track is Carolina Motorsports Park, which is notorious for eating brakes.

It’s nice to have a pad that will last longer. I have to admit, the stock pads (also by pagid), despite the squealing everyone bitches about, are the best stock pads I’ve ever used on a track.

Shawn

[PDOT]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

For stopping power? I’m afraid so. One full brake marker. I lost one entire second per lap (although that could have been my heat cycled out Toyo’s)

But remember, pagid yellows are usually endurance pads. Designed to last LONG not HARD. I installed them when I got to the brake wear warning because my next track is Carolina Motorsports Park, which is notorious for eating brakes.

It’s nice to have a pad that will last longer. I have to admit, the stock pads (also by pagid), despite the squealing everyone bitches about, are the best stock pads I’ve ever used on a track.

Shawn

That’s good to know. I was thinking about trying them out after these Carbotech wear, but after my track day I think the XP-12s will be my go to.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by PDOT

That’s good to know. I was thinking about trying them out after these Carbotech wear, but after my track day I think the XP-12s will be my go to.

Oh ho ho, so our activity has gotten Carbotech to make pads available in compounds.

I'll be honest, you might as well consider XP-20's. This is a heavy *itch, and will be right tough on pads. Unless you LIKE replacing pads, consider the 20's. What did you use the last round?

Shawn

[PDOT]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Oh ho ho, so our activity has gotten Carbotech to make pads available in compounds.

I'll be honest, you might as well consider XP-20's. This is a heavy *itch, and will be right tough on pads. Unless you LIKE replacing pads, consider the 20's. What did you use the last round?

Shawn

I used the XP-12 this most recent trip. Great cut 2 seconds of my time. Before I tried the EBC which wasn’t horrible but blew through them in a day

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by PDOT

I used the XP-12 this most recent trip. Great cut 2 seconds of my time. Before I tried the EBC which wasn’t horrible but blew through them in a day

Nobody seems to understand that "brakes make the car go faster". Try the xp-20's. You won't be disappointed.

Shawn

[PDOT]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Nobody seems to understand that "brakes make the car go faster". Try the xp-20's. You won't be disappointed.

Shawn

I was speaking with the Carbotech rep, he stated the XP-20 would be to much for my tires (Cup 2 240)

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by PDOT

I was speaking with the Carbotech rep, he stated the XP-20 would be to much for my tires (Cup 2 240)

Nah.

There’s never “too much brake” in a car with full ABS.

Until you’re able to trigger ABS in a braking zone, you haven’t gotten there yet. If you can with XP12’s you must have a thigh like Thor. Not skipping leg day.

Shawn

[PDOT]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Nobody seems to understand that "brakes make the car go faster". Try the xp-20's. You won't be disappointed.

Shawn

Running VIR for the first time this weekend, any tips?

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by PDOT

Running VIR for the first time this weekend, any tips?

Yep. All except for the M2 in the way, this is a pretty good line.

If you can get a garage, that helps, VIR lodge is great, and has paddock rooms and hotel rooms on the facility. 10/10, highly recommend. The track shop is awesome, as well as the pagoda grill, so food on site is really good.

Oak Tree Tavern is also awesome, and on facility. Pricey, but when you have a $100,000 car, it's hard to argue for economy as to not get what you want.

Shawn

[micvite]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Nah.

There’s never “too much brake” in a car with full ABS.

Until you’re able to trigger ABS in a braking zone, you haven’t gotten there yet. If you can with XP12’s you must have a thigh like Thor. Not skipping leg day.

Shawn

Lol that would probably be me😂 did a brake force test in the m4 gt4 and I came out with 252 lbs of braking pressure (no assist and stationary) and apparently you only need 140 to achieve full brake pressure.

But yeah no reason to run ccb unless it's a really technical track (like the nurburgring grand prix track for example). If your brakes have time to cool down then there shouldn't be any issues. But I found out the hard way that a stock m5 (non comp) can only do... 2-3 laps of the grand prix track before the brakes are toast even after just one lap and I wasn't going that fast since I didn't know the track the fade was pretty obvious but after the second lap coming down the front straight pedal went to the floor, abs didn't even activate as I'm going 160 mph and I braked fairly early since again I wasn't trying to beat any speed records. I maybe got it down to 80 in the first corner which is basically a hairpin, luckily no traffic around and I was able to go really wide and use 4 tires sliding sideways to slow the car enough to make the turn in the end. Did a cool down lap for the rest of the lap and came into the pits with the brakes still smoking heavily. Developed a nice permanent "groan" after that