[CrashCade]

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So I’ve spent the last couple weekends on road course tracks. Today I was power limited due to oil temps going too high!

I’ve searched the forums and haven’t found anyone talk of upgraded oil cooling. Is there something out there for additional oil cooling?

Also, are there better and efficient charge air coolers for track use or maybe heat exchangers to keep the factory CAC cooler?

Would it be beneficial to use meth to help lower IATs for track use?

I just want to get a head of the high oil temps as quickly as possible.

[warpeacelove]

Originally Posted by CrashCade

So I’ve spent the last couple weekends on road course tracks. Today I was power limited due to oil temps going too high!

I’ve searched the forums and haven’t found anyone talk of upgraded oil cooling. Is there something out there for additional oil cooling?

Also, are there better and efficient charge air coolers for track use or maybe heat exchangers to keep the factory CAC cooler?

Would it be beneficial to use meth to help lower IATs for track use?

I just want to get a head of the high oil temps as quickly as possible.

https://fiinterchillers.com/product/interchiller/

[pbonsalb]

For oil, Mishimoto sells an upgraded cooler. There may also be modifications you can do to increase the flow to the cooler or reduce the temptation which the bypass opens like on older BMW, but I have not looked into that. One member, ShawnHayes, has been tracking M5 regularly for years. I read his posts here and don’t recall any issues with oil temps. Maybe you are in the desert and he is in a cooler area or the tracks he runs on are faster so airflow is better.

For engine coolant, a 90C thermostat is available and there is programming that can be done to lower the fan activation temp in the tune. Either my BM3 or Xhp tunes have this option but I forget the exact details.

For inlet air temperature, you can add water meth injection from BMS and others. I run mine through the BMS JB4 so there is some input from the ECU, but others run a controller divorced from ECU input and others have a tune for the WMI. I think a performance version of an older M3 or M4 used a water injection system from the factory. I have used WMI on various turbo and NA cars over the past 20+ years.

You can buy upgraded intercoolers from CTS, PG, Wagner and CSF. Reports suggest they do little if anything in normal driving under average conditions like a few highway pulls. Track use would be a better test. It may be that higher capacity heat exchangers are also needed. Carbahn sells a kit. I think there are 2, one behind or under the radiator and one in front of the right front wheel. The Carbahn kit mounts in front of the radiator.

And there are the AC based intercooler coolant chillers like FIchillers and a few others. I have thought about installing one of these. The main box usually goes behind the bumper and it is then spliced into the AC lines and the IC coolant circuit. I think the Dodge Demon used a version of these from the factory.

[CrashCade]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

For oil, Mishimoto sells an upgraded cooler. There may also be modifications you can do to increase the flow to the cooler or reduce the temptation which the bypass opens like on older BMW, but I have not looked into that. One member, ShawnHayes, has been tracking M5 regularly for years. I read his posts here and don’t recall any issues with oil temps. Maybe you are in the desert and he is in a cooler area or the tracks he runs on are faster so airflow is better.

For engine coolant, a 90C thermostat is available and there is programming that can be done to lower the fan activation temp in the tune. Either my BM3 or Xhp tunes have this option but I forget the exact details.

For inlet air temperature, you can add water meth injection from BMS and others. I run mine through the BMS JB4 so there is some input from the ECU, but others run a controller divorced from ECU input and others have a tune for the WMI. I think a performance version of an older M3 or M4 used a water injection system from the factory. I have used WMI on various turbo and NA cars over the past 20+ years.

You can buy upgraded intercoolers from CTS, PG, Wagner and CSF. Reports suggest they do little if anything in normal driving under average conditions like a few highway pulls. Track use would be a better test. It may be that higher capacity heat exchangers are also needed. Carbahn sells a kit. I think there are 2, one behind or under the radiator and one in front of the right front wheel. The Carbahn kit mounts in front of the radiator.

And there are the AC based intercooler coolant chillers like FIchillers and a few others. I have thought about installing one of these. The main box usually goes behind the bumper and it is then spliced into the AC lines and the IC coolant circuit. I think the Dodge Demon used a version of these from the factory.

Awesome information. I am going to datalog a couple sessions today to see what everything else is doing. We are at 4k elevation and 90* running a 1:45 on a 2.5 mile track so I would say there is plenty of flow across the existing heat exchangers.

I’ll check out the references you listed above and see if any of them make sense.

This is the first time I have ever had the car run outside of its normal parameters and it caught me off guard as I have never had any issues with this car at all.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by CrashCade

Awesome information. I am going to datalog a couple sessions today to see what everything else is doing. We are at 4k elevation and 90* running a 1:45 on a 2.5 mile track so I would say there is plenty of flow across the existing heat exchangers.

Have run this platform for years at southern tracks. Had a GT-R before that, so inadequate cooling is a specialty that I had kick my butt for ten years.

The biggest problem as I see it for you is 4000 feet. At sea level and 90, plenty of air. At 4k, no way. You’re also KICKIN it at 1:45, and higher speeds mean some increased air, but there’s a number above which the increased air can’t overcome the increased heat. That number is even lower at higher elevations.

I am inexperienced with increased oil cooling on an F90, cause I haven’t needed it. Maybe a thicker core in the stock position would help, but an additional radiator would help a lot. But the nose of an f90 is pretty crowded already.

Shawn

[pbonsalb]

I think CSF makes a coolant radiator for the M5. I assume it is higher capacity but don’t know for sure.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by CrashCade

I’ll check out the references you listed above and see if any of them make sense.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-mishimot...c-f10-12sl~ms/

Pricey, but ECS doesn't sell junk in my experience.

Mishimoto makes a lot of racing parts that my other buddies use a lot. This looks bigger, just visually.




Shawn

[CrashCade]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-mishimot...c-f10-12sl~ms/

Pricey, but ECS doesn't sell junk in my experience.

Mishimoto makes a lot of racing parts that my other buddies use a lot. This looks bigger, just visually.




Shawn

I think I am going to give this a try. We have a short track season because winter seems like it is 9 months long. With that said, ambient temps are typically >80* which doesn’t help the situation. Limited power really isn’t ideal on the track.

I’ll have more time to look over the logs of a full session later tonight to see if I need to add more coolant cooling as well.

[CrashCade]

So it looks like I peaked at 256 on oil and once I was heat soaked coolant stayed around 240-248. So I probably need to look at more coolant cooling as well.

I do have my fans set to max cooling using BM3. I will look at the lower range thermostat too but I’m this instance it doesn’t look like that would’ve done anything for me.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by CrashCade

So it looks like I peaked at 256 on oil and once I was heat soaked coolant stayed around 240-248. So I probably need to look at more coolant cooling as well.

I do have my fans set to max cooling using BM3. I will look at the lower range thermostat too but I’m this instance it doesn’t look like that would’ve done anything for me.

If you can find a bigger radiator for the coolant, it might help both problems without as much work.

Unknown to me how much work the front radiator replacement might be. As crowded as the nose is, I suspect A LOT. The oil cooler looks a lot easier. If $700+ and DIY is in your wheelhouse, it might make some movement in the right direction.

Shawn

[CrashCade]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

If you can find a bigger radiator for the coolant, it might help both problems without as much work.

Unknown to me how much work the front radiator replacement might be. As crowded as the nose is, I suspect A LOT. The oil cooler looks a lot easier. If $700+ and DIY is in your wheelhouse, it might make some movement in the right direction.

Shawn

I do most of my own work so this doesn’t seem too bad at all. I have found a larger replacement radiator but man, the auxiliary heat exchangers are a little pricey.

I think when I pull the front end apart to do the oil cooler, I will pull the other heat exchangers and make sure they are clean and free flowing. I have 56k miles on the car currently so I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some restriction on air flow from dirt and road grime.

[pbonsalb]

No need to pull the front end apart to do the oil cooler. It is under the car secured by 4 skinny torx bolts that are easily accessible when the front plastic tray is removed. The cooler will drop down about a foot attached to the two hoses.

Getting to any other heat exchanger is more work. For the radiator, you have to remove the radiator cover and the electric puller fan. Have not actually removed it but had it pretty well exposed when doing the 90C thermostat. The secondary intercooler heat exchangers appear to be accessible only after removing the radiator, but I have not actually done that job. Carbahn appears to replace it with 2 new ones mounted in front of the AC compressor. There is an auxiliary heat exchanger in front of the driver’s wheel for the radiator and I think the primary one for the intercoolers in front of the passenger wheel. I have seen them when I had the wheel liners out for other work but have not actually removed either.

Lots of fun projects for the DIYer. The oil cooler should be really easy.

[TacoJova]

Carbahn sells a kit that adds 2 more intercoolers/heat exchangers in front of everything else. I currently run them on my car along with the top intercoolers from CSF

[Dasky_spas]

https://autotecknic.com/collections/...42575834349814

https://autotecknic.com/collections/...adiator-f90-m5

Radiator, aux cooler upgrades

[badblack550xi]

https://n63intake.com/products/n63-n...l-cooler-valve

this little valve does wonders to your oil temps.

[pbonsalb]

Interesting. I assume that is a bypass valve that allows more oil to bypass the 100C thermostat. Could be good for those who live in really hot areas or track their cars. My concern would be winter use — temps are usually at or below freezing for 3 months a year. I don’t want to swap it in and out twice a year though I suppose I could put my oil changes on a winter and spring cycle and do it then.

Probably for me it is too much unless there is a milder version. The gauge on my 18 M5 usually shows 250, often a little less, rarely a little more. Some say the gauge is not accurate, so I should log or watch on an obd2 gauge.

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Interesting. I assume that is a bypass valve that allows more oil to bypass the 100C thermostat. Could be good for those who live in really hot areas or track their cars. My concern would be winter use — temps are usually at or below freezing for 3 months a year. I don’t want to swap it in and out twice a year though I suppose I could put my oil changes on a winter and spring cycle and do it then.

Probably for me it is too much unless there is a milder version. The gauge on my 18 M5 usually shows 250, often a little less, rarely a little more. Some say the gauge is not accurate, so I should log or watch on an obd2 gauge.

ive been running it for years in NJ zero issues in winter, just takes longer for temps of the engine to go up. about 15 mins of cruising.

[pbonsalb]

Slow warm up is not great, especially if regular driving includes some short trips.

[Jambo1]

On a related note, ambient temps in this Texas heat makes the car open up the thermostat as soon as I drive off, and no matter how long a drive I'm on, engine temperature never gets anywhere close to operating temperature - guess this can't be good.
Anyone else experience this in super hot climates?

[pmsteinm]

Originally Posted by Jambo1

On a related note, ambient temps in this Texas heat makes the car open up the thermostat as soon as I drive off, and no matter how long a drive I'm on, engine temperature never gets anywhere close to operating temperature - guess this can't be good.
Anyone else experience this in super hot climates?

Are you talking about the water temperature (widget) or oil temp (dash)? The water temp will stay low for me if I'm in sport+ (and I noticed at the M school even when the oil is overheating the water stayed closer to 160 than 210). My oil is always around 210...sometimes a tick over or under depending. If your oil is warming up then I think you are ok since that is probably a better measure of how hot the engine is.

If your water temp is really low it is possible your thermostat is bad. Looks like you should be under warranty.

[Jambo1]

They both stay like so.

[pmsteinm]

Mine will get there in a few miles, and by about 5 miles is close to 210. If you are under warranty you could bring it in or at least ask your service advisor about it. If you wind the car up and drive hard for a bit does the temp go up? I think where yours reads is considered "warmed up" according to the rev limit and owner's manual.