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      06-12-2019, 11:25 PM   #1
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F90 M5C vs. AMG GT63S... yes, another one

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      06-13-2019, 12:54 AM   #2
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I just have not seen the AMG GT63S perform better than the M5C in most videos - especially one on one - same day same road like this video. The M5C seems quicker to the 1/4 and 1/2 mile:

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      06-13-2019, 12:59 AM   #3
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THAT said, I do agree - as well as the standard M5 vs E63S - that the Mercs have the better top end (as they usually do). So on two other dashboard to dashboard comparos - including one that was slightly biased (stating "See why Mercedes is better" lol) - have it nearly identical to 250 KM/hr.

In fact the M5C is leading the Merc by about a KM/hr at 1:55 to 160 KM/hr and 1:59 to 200 KM/hr. At 250 KM/hr, the MB is ahead by 2 KM/hr. When the GT63 hits 300 - the M5C is at 295 - which I believe is about right.

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      06-15-2019, 05:10 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
I just have not seen the AMG GT63S perform better than the M5C in most videos - especially one on one - same day same road like this video. The M5C seems quicker to the 1/4 and 1/2 mile:

I never thought the AMG is a better performer, given its weight and marginal power increase over the M5C. It does move well for a pig though.

While many can't tell the difference between a M5 and a 5 series (my wife can't), the AMG is at least different (whether or not one think it is pretty or ugly) and provided that one can swallow its ridiculous MSRP.
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      06-15-2019, 07:46 PM   #5
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I've seen the GT63S in-person and the interior is mind-blowing; just on another level. But watching it drive up and spending quite some time *trying* to like it, I didn't... sadly, the same is so far true of the 8 series GC so the set of options for my next toy are reducing by the day. Frankly, the GT63S reminds a bit of this:

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      06-23-2019, 04:11 PM   #6
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Man I really like the GT 63 S not going to lie. In person it is a lot prettier and damn does it sound and drive well (it does drive better than the standard M5). But it's price tag is insane. You would have to be bonkers or love the car's design to pay its premium over an M5 or E63 S
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      06-24-2019, 09:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
Man I really like the GT 63 S not going to lie. In person it is a lot prettier and damn does it sound and drive well (it does drive better than the standard M5). But it's price tag is insane. You would have to be bonkers or love the car's design to pay its premium over an M5 or E63 S
I finally saw one on the road (I have seen many in the showroom as they dont sell LOL) and I can agree, that while moving, it has a presence to it. This particular model didnt have that GTS wing that I have on my Edition 1 and I think its better without because the wing, to me, has no place on a sedan. But while it was moving the car looked pretty good.

Ill agree with you and you know my feelings about the price point of the car. Its a big miss even with my triple net factory discount. Its just not worth it.

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      06-24-2019, 03:32 PM   #8
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Just to give an idea of market conditions. My local dealer, Jackson, MS of all places has 3 of them in stock. Including a matte blue with a $193k sticker, a very confused looking car.
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      06-24-2019, 09:23 PM   #9
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Just to give an idea of market conditions. My local dealer, Jackson, MS of all places has 3 of them in stock. Including a matte blue with a $193k sticker, a very confused looking car.
^This. I won't bother with the subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just think the price point was way way off. Was it intended as an M8 fighter? Was MB thinking ahead? I honestly don't know what they were thinking here.
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      06-24-2019, 11:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
I finally saw one on the road (I have seen many in the showroom as they dont sell LOL) and I can agree, that while moving, it has a presence to it. This particular model didnt have that GTS wing that I have on my Edition 1 and I think its better without because the wing, to me, has no place on a sedan. But while it was moving the car looked pretty good.

Ill agree with you and you know my feelings about the price point of the car. Its a big miss even with my triple net factory discount. Its just not worth it.

Yep, I have been saying it forever, love it or hate it, it has a presence that the M5 just don't have. I have only seen it once, and it was a black matte one, and boy it looked mean and sounded mean, unfortunately the same goes for the price tag too
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      06-25-2019, 09:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
I finally saw one on the road (I have seen many in the showroom as they dont sell LOL) and I can agree, that while moving, it has a presence to it. This particular model didnt have that GTS wing that I have on my Edition 1 and I think its better without because the wing, to me, has no place on a sedan. But while it was moving the car looked pretty good.

Ill agree with you and you know my feelings about the price point of the car. Its a big miss even with my triple net factory discount. Its just not worth it.

This car is such a flop in terms of sales, that even here there are numerous units stuck at dealers, as people ordered and did not take delivery. Insane price tag. I thought Porsche was batshit crazy to put the Panamera Turbo S in high 100's and low 200's, but Mercedes proved me wrong. And the Panamera is far more usable and has a lot more features.
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      06-25-2019, 09:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
^This. I won't bother with the subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just think the price point was way way off. Was it intended as an M8 fighter? Was MB thinking ahead? I honestly don't know what they were thinking here.
They wanted a niche car that filled the gap between let's say an E63 S or M5 and the Panamera. From my understanding, before it launched I thought it was going to be more luxurious and well equipped than the E63 (and more comfortable) while having a price in the 145 to 160k usd with some extra HP and performance features. Instead it rides harshly like the E63 S, it has no extra tech features nor comfort features (no adjustable seats in the back, no rear seat entertainment, no leather wrapped airbag) - features present in the Panamera.

The interior is a little more top notch than that of an E63 but honestly it doesn't cover 1/10 of the price difference.
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      06-25-2019, 10:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
They wanted a niche car that filled the gap between let's say an E63 S or M5 and the Panamera. From my understanding, before it launched I thought it was going to be more luxurious and well equipped than the E63 (and more comfortable) while having a price in the 145 to 160k usd with some extra HP and performance features. Instead it rides harshly like the E63 S, it has no extra tech features nor comfort features (no adjustable seats in the back, no rear seat entertainment, no leather wrapped airbag) - features present in the Panamera.

The interior is a little more top notch than that of an E63 but honestly it doesn't cover 1/10 of the price difference.
This attempt clearly pushed it in the S63 arena (pricing) where the luxury of that car outshines the GT63.

Edit: If one can find a nicely appointed GT63S at 165k and then get a full 12% off (triple net) and pray for factory trunk money of 10k- one could get it for 135k or circa. That might work.... maybe LOL.
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      06-25-2019, 12:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
This attempt clearly pushed it in the S63 arena (pricing) where the luxury of that car outshines the GT63.

Edit: If one can find a nicely appointed GT63S at 165k and then get a full 12% off (triple net) and pray for factory trunk money of 10k- one could get it for 135k or circa. That might work.... maybe LOL.
Totally agree. Panamera owners want something more luxurious than a M5 or a E63 S. I know the owner of a 2019 Turbo S, and he just bought it over one of the two I mentioned due to the extra luxury and added comfort (which is exactly where the S63 is present). The Panamera offers around 90% the handling and performance of the two, with a bit more comfort. I understand why AMG would go for a more hardcore approach (and offer something with more capability than the E63), but I mean come on, the same bone shaking ride, similar interior finish and lack of comfort features (from S63 or Panamera) makes no sense when we are talking about 160-180k USD cars.

The M5's interior for instance has a quality standard that nearly matches that of the GT 63 (with full or extended leather and anthracite headliner) for a fraction of the price. Mercs went bananas on this one, which is a pity because if this car was similarly priced (and was a little more comfortable), I would own one easily.
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      06-25-2019, 07:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
Totally agree. Panamera owners want something more luxurious than a M5 or a E63 S. I know the owner of a 2019 Turbo S, and he just bought it over one of the two I mentioned due to the extra luxury and added comfort (which is exactly where the S63 is present). The Panamera offers around 90% the handling and performance of the two, with a bit more comfort. I understand why AMG would go for a more hardcore approach (and offer something with more capability than the E63), but I mean come on, the same bone shaking ride, similar interior finish and lack of comfort features (from S63 or Panamera) makes no sense when we are talking about 160-180k USD cars.

The M5's interior for instance has a quality standard that nearly matches that of the GT 63 (with full or extended leather and anthracite headliner) for a fraction of the price. Mercs went bananas on this one, which is a pity because if this car was similarly priced (and was a little more comfortable), I would own one easily.
A good friend just got a Pan Turbo Non S and he swears by it- plus he is an AMG guy. I have not rode in it yet but have no reason to doubt it after all the P cars Ive had. The Porsche engineering is so dialed from springs to dampers combined with the chassis; the cars just endure the bumps and undulations. My many 911 cars proves it to me. Ill be back with Porsche soon.
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      06-26-2019, 05:45 PM   #16
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Dumbest thing that Mercedes could do with its pricing strategy. Now their GT 4 doors sit on the lots just like the Panameras do

On top of that, very unfavorable lease rates. That said, MB normally fixes these issues quickly. I see lots of trunk money and perhaps subvented MF on these coming
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      06-26-2019, 06:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
A good friend just got a Pan Turbo Non S and he swears by it- plus he is an AMG guy. I have not rode in it yet but have no reason to doubt it after all the P cars Ive had. The Porsche engineering is so dialed from springs to dampers combined with the chassis; the cars just endure the bumps and undulations. My many 911 cars proves it to me. Ill be back with Porsche soon.
The Panamera has an unbelievably impressive compromise between comfort and sporting prowess. It is the best of the bunch, no wonder Bentley used the car's chassis.

Regarding Porsche, the 992 is a real peach (even the Carrera). Knowing you, I probably believe one is coming as soon as the performance variations come out.
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      06-26-2019, 06:22 PM   #18
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Dumbest thing that Mercedes could do with its pricing strategy. Now their GT 4 doors sit on the lots just like the Panameras do

On top of that, very unfavorable lease rates. That said, MB normally fixes these issues quickly. I see lots of trunk money and perhaps subvented MF on these coming

I am 110% sure the leasing rates will change within the next couple of months. Mercedes is having a really hard time moving units, and with 3k + leases, that was sure to be the case.
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      06-26-2019, 06:37 PM   #19
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I am 110% sure the leasing rates will change within the next couple of months. Mercedes is having a really hard time moving units, and with 3k + leases, that was sure to be the case.
I dont see the standard rates (almost every AMG falls into this level) going down. The car, while not selling, is not a run of the mill AMG so it will retain standard rates. The driver will be in the trunk or on the hood money like the AMG GT(C) cars which didnt sell and now have heavy trunk money but still ugly money factors.

What might happen is regional money applications stateside as the Western Region is holding more of these cars than any other region. Even with a trunk chunk Ill pass as the F90 is every bit as good as this car if not moreso.
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      06-26-2019, 06:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
The Panamera has an unbelievably impressive compromise between comfort and sporting prowess. It is the best of the bunch, no wonder Bentley used the car's chassis.

Regarding Porsche, the 992 is a real peach (even the Carrera). Knowing you, I probably believe one is coming as soon as the performance variations come out.
My only problem with the 992 is the weight gain due to the new chassis / trans for a potential hybrid. That added 160-200lbs. That will make the TTS 3,800lbs. You can design around that somewhat, but it’s getting heavy.
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      06-26-2019, 09:57 PM   #21
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My only problem with the 992 is the weight gain due to the new chassis / trans for a potential hybrid. That added 160-200lbs. That will make the TTS 3,800lbs. You can design around that somewhat, but it’s getting heavy.
^This - plus I still cannot get on board with the new interior - especially the shaver/shifter, that ugly cup holder and for some reason all the buttons on the doors. I know Porsche has to modernize - but I think there were some tweaks that would have helped; like taking a page out of the F90 and putting a physical border around the digital gauges. It just looks cheap to me as is. I do like the metal switches however - but the giant touch screen looks out of place in this type of car.
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      06-27-2019, 10:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtknight View Post
^This - plus I still cannot get on board with the new interior - especially the shaver/shifter, that ugly cup holder and for some reason all the buttons on the doors. I know Porsche has to modernize - but I think there were some tweaks that would have helped; like taking a page out of the F90 and putting a physical border around the digital gauges. It just looks cheap to me as is. I do like the metal switches however - but the giant touch screen looks out of place in this type of car.
Also just read that the new 992 TTS will have speed limited GPS Nav. I don't like those types of nannies even though it's coming to all platforms eventually.
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