Race Chip 👍

josec70 · 01-16-2020, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrgicm

Quote:

Originally Posted by subzero05

+1 I agree completely. Piggy is the best option if you have a warranty, leased vehicle etc and want the option of tuning with the least risk.. period.

You couldnt be more wrong. If you unferstood how truly a tune and a bmw work you wouldnt have that opinion. Other question is do you want what is best for your car or what you juat thing the dealer wont see?? Any normal person should just want what is best for the car, keeping in mind all aspects and parameters that need to be changed in order for the car to ran healthy.

Quick question ....

How many M5's do you know of that have blown an engine with tune? How many w/ a piggy?

I've never seen a blown engine that's been running a piggy yet I've seen 1st hand (not on a forum or group chat) 6 M5's with blown engines.

Ran a piggy on two F10 M5's for 7 years and 50k miles with no issue ... plug, play and forget about it.

I understand where you're coming from in terms of the variables a tune can configure but the numbers don't support the theory that it's safer, more so, if you have warranty concerns.

A blind tech at BMW can spot a tune ....

Ohhh, and I never once removed the piggys for dealership visits.

Hockeytyme · 01-18-2020, 01:47 AM

So, let's put the warranty issue aside and just compare the tune vs. the piggyback. I'm currently running a piggy back and have some of the fastest times ever posted on Dragy for the F90. However, long term I do believe that a tune is better for the car. A tune actually feels like it runs smoother, and a tune allows you to keep more of the cars natural built in safety features from the DME in tact while just increasing the variables you want.

No doubt the piggys can perform, as we have all seen. And to date they are out performing the tunes except a guy in Russia with turbos, tires, track, seats removed and that's not counting the normal mods.

I think tunes perform better on the top end and they still allow you to limit some of the torque while pushing hp which is what causes most of the issues. A piggy doesn't allow that along with a number of other things a tune can.

I think part of the reason you don't see the tunes outperforming the piggys is because they don't want a bad name if they blow a motor. Where as with a piggy, customers make their own changes and are responsible for them so a piggy company has less worries and the customer if willing can push the envelope more. I think if you were to buy some of the top tunes and you had the ability to go add more boost and change a couple things you would see the tunes putting up similar numbers.

As much as my piggy has done for me and the crazy fast numbers I have gotten I'm still planning to run a tune long term and even try to push one at first and see what I can get out of it.

I bought my car, so I want it to run good for the 4-7 years I own it, and I think the best chance of that is with a tune or tune with JB4 in conjunction.

Sleep well F90 fam!

shoei · 01-18-2020, 02:33 AM

Even with my leases I've done tunes... Well, both piggy and tunes I mean... What I do like about tunes is that it's consistent... Whenever I had a piggy, it wouldn't be 100% consistent and hockey said it best - it feels smoother... I couldn't agree more on the smoothness factor... Don't get me wrong, I have no issues with both, but my preference slides more towards custom tune... Risks with both, neither are 100% issue free or guaranteed to not blow anything, but we all know the risks and some happily take the plunge...

Unless you get some tune off the forums suggestion cuz one dude is saying his butt dyno or how they're space shuttle endeavor numbers on all stock internals, then that's just stupid...

But seriously... Dig both but to truly squeeze out ever drop of juice from our cars? It's gotta be a custom tune... Or tune and piggy... Oh, and if one gets Dinan tune, they also can just stroll into a dealership without worry... Some dealerships flag immediately if you have anything plugged into your obii port, so again, neither is 100% safe anyways... Plus, some of the tunes allow you to sell your license when you either sell / lease return your vehicle so if cost of a tune on a lease doesn't sit well with someone, they could recoup some of the cost...

r33_RGSport · 01-18-2020, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeytyme

So, let's put the warranty issue aside and just compare the tune vs. the piggyback. I'm currently running a piggy back and have some of the fastest times ever posted on Dragy for the F90. However, long term I do believe that a tune is better for the car. A tune actually feels like it runs smoother, and a tune allows you to keep more of the cars natural built in safety features from the DME in tact while just increasing the variables you want.

No doubt the piggys can perform, as we have all seen. And to date they are out performing the tunes except a guy in Russia with turbos, tires, track, seats removed and that's not counting the normal mods.

I think tunes perform better on the top end and they still allow you to limit some of the torque while pushing hp which is what causes most of the issues. A piggy doesn't allow that along with a number of other things a tune can.

I think part of the reason you don't see the tunes outperforming the piggys is because they don't want a bad name if they blow a motor. Where as with a piggy, customers make their own changes and are responsible for them so a piggy company has less worries and the customer if willing can push the envelope more. I think if you were to buy some of the top tunes and you had the ability to go add more boost and change a couple things you would see the tunes putting up similar numbers.

As much as my piggy has done for me and the crazy fast numbers I have gotten I'm still planning to run a tune long term and even try to push one at first and see what I can get out of it.

I bought my car, so I want it to run good for the 4-7 years I own it, and I think the best chance of that is with a tune or tune with JB4 in conjunction.

Sleep well F90 fam!

Well put.

But smoothness on piggy, that is another subject there.

Let me know if I should discuss it and I'll spill it out.

Barry_S · 01-18-2020, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeytyme

So, let's put the warranty issue aside and just compare the tune vs. the piggyback. I'm currently running a piggy back and have some of the fastest times ever posted on Dragy for the F90. However, long term I do believe that a tune is better for the car. A tune actually feels like it runs smoother, and a tune allows you to keep more of the cars natural built in safety features from the DME in tact while just increasing the variables you want.

No doubt the piggys can perform, as we have all seen. And to date they are out performing the tunes except a guy in Russia with turbos, tires, track, seats removed and that's not counting the normal mods.

I think tunes perform better on the top end and they still allow you to limit some of the torque while pushing hp which is what causes most of the issues. A piggy doesn't allow that along with a number of other things a tune can.

I think part of the reason you don't see the tunes outperforming the piggys is because they don't want a bad name if they blow a motor. Where as with a piggy, customers make their own changes and are responsible for them so a piggy company has less worries and the customer if willing can push the envelope more. I think if you were to buy some of the top tunes and you had the ability to go add more boost and change a couple things you would see the tunes putting up similar numbers.

As much as my piggy has done for me and the crazy fast numbers I have gotten I'm still planning to run a tune long term and even try to push one at first and see what I can get out of it.

I bought my car, so I want it to run good for the 4-7 years I own it, and I think the best chance of that is with a tune or tune with JB4 in conjunction.

Sleep well F90 fam!

Well put.

But smoothness on piggy, that is another subject there.

Let me know if I should discuss it and I'll spill it out.

I'm interested in learning more from your perspective.

Hockeytyme · 01-18-2020, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Well put.

But smoothness on piggy, that is another subject there.

Let me know if I should discuss it and I'll spill it out.

I'll say it like my wife thinks it "I only want to hear it, if you're going to agree with me" haha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_S

I'm interested in learning more from your perspective.

Barry, like I said previously, I have a JB4 and it's been great. I can't say a bad thing about it. For comparison reasons, longevity, and because i'm bored, I'm also working to install a flash tune or 3 now and can give better answers down there road here shortly. Unfortunately, I can't compare the Race Chip as I have never used it but i'm guessing it's very similar to JB4 2 wire map1 setup.

onfireX5 · 01-18-2020, 10:01 AM

I’ve used two JB’s, three RaceChip, Cobb, one Dinan, have BM3 to play with and I build my own tunes from scratch on my 1500hp LS TT stuff plus some methanol ProMod stuff.

It all comes down to what you want.

On the smoothness issue, that is simple. The DME’s are airflow modeled. Not boost set point like the old stuff. Any piggy that has a fast processor that stays within the factory hysteresis will be smooth. (Basically a Stage 1) Go beyond that and it will never be as smooth as a DME tune as it is relying on corrections rather than directives.

r33_RGSport · 01-18-2020, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_S

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockeytyme

So, let's put the warranty issue aside and just compare the tune vs. the piggyback. I'm currently running a piggy back and have some of the fastest times ever posted on Dragy for the F90. However, long term I do believe that a tune is better for the car. A tune actually feels like it runs smoother, and a tune allows you to keep more of the cars natural built in safety features from the DME in tact while just increasing the variables you want.

No doubt the piggys can perform, as we have all seen. And to date they are out performing the tunes except a guy in Russia with turbos, tires, track, seats removed and that's not counting the normal mods.

I think tunes perform better on the top end and they still allow you to limit some of the torque while pushing hp which is what causes most of the issues. A piggy doesn't allow that along with a number of other things a tune can.

I think part of the reason you don't see the tunes outperforming the piggys is because they don't want a bad name if they blow a motor. Where as with a piggy, customers make their own changes and are responsible for them so a piggy company has less worries and the customer if willing can push the envelope more. I think if you were to buy some of the top tunes and you had the ability to go add more boost and change a couple things you would see the tunes putting up similar numbers.

As much as my piggy has done for me and the crazy fast numbers I have gotten I'm still planning to run a tune long term and even try to push one at first and see what I can get out of it.

I bought my car, so I want it to run good for the 4-7 years I own it, and I think the best chance of that is with a tune or tune with JB4 in conjunction.

Sleep well F90 fam!

Well put.

But smoothness on piggy, that is another subject there.

Let me know if I should discuss it and I'll spill it out.

I'm interested in learning more from your perspective.

@onfireX5 just summarize it.

Processor speed does matter. Sampling and altering data at faster speed will result in smoother result.
I also experience it. Used JB4 back in 2012-2014, until I found RaceChip, I don't look back.
True that JB4 have more aggressive maps, but with the availability of flash tune, I would jump directly to Stage2 flash tune.
Especially with slow processor that sampling and tricking more than 2 sensors.

LongBeachDinanFan · 01-18-2020, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

@onfireX5 just summarize it.

Processor speed does matter. Sampling and altering data at faster speed will result in smoother result.
I also experience it. Used JB4 back in 2012-2014, until I found RaceChip, I don't look back.
True that JB4 have more aggressive maps, but with the availability of flash tune, I would jump directly to Stage2 flash tune.
Especially with slow processor that sampling and tricking more than 2 sensors.

I understand you are the RaceChip sales person but really nothing could be further from the truth. The JB4 is a much more powerful and faster system which is why it can do so much more than RaceChip including CANbus, EWG control, fuel control, timing control, all the stuff the app provides, etc. I also dislike how RaceChip puts fake dyno charts and bogus gas economy increase numbers on their website. It's a chip designed for people who are not smart enough to find better options for less money like Dinan Sport, JB4, and others.

r33_RGSport · 01-18-2020, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongBeachDinanFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

@onfireX5 just summarize it.

Processor speed does matter. Sampling and altering data at faster speed will result in smoother result.
I also experience it. Used JB4 back in 2012-2014, until I found RaceChip, I don't look back.
True that JB4 have more aggressive maps, but with the availability of flash tune, I would jump directly to Stage2 flash tune.
Especially with slow processor that sampling and tricking more than 2 sensors.

I understand you are the RaceChip sales person but really nothing could be further from the truth. The JB4 is a much more powerful and faster system which is why it can do so much more than RaceChip including CANbus, EWG control, fuel control, timing control, all the stuff the app provides, etc. I also dislike how RaceChip puts fake dyno charts and bogus gas economy increase numbers on their website. It's a chip designed for people who are not smart enough to find better options for less money like Dinan Sport, JB4, and others.

I'll let my post and reputation talk.

I am car enthusiast first, business owner second.
I help other car enthusiast as much as I possibly can.
Some even call me or drop an email or drop by just to chat digging my knowledge, and I am fine with it.

shoei · 01-18-2020, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongBeachDinanFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

@onfireX5 just summarize it.

Processor speed does matter. Sampling and altering data at faster speed will result in smoother result.
I also experience it. Used JB4 back in 2012-2014, until I found RaceChip, I don't look back.
True that JB4 have more aggressive maps, but with the availability of flash tune, I would jump directly to Stage2 flash tune.
Especially with slow processor that sampling and tricking more than 2 sensors.

I understand you are the RaceChip sales person but really nothing could be further from the truth. The JB4 is a much more powerful and faster system which is why it can do so much more than RaceChip including CANbus, EWG control, fuel control, timing control, all the stuff the app provides, etc. I also dislike how RaceChip puts fake dyno charts and bogus gas economy increase numbers on their website. It's a chip designed for people who are not smart enough to find better options for less money like Dinan Sport, JB4, and others.

I'll let my post and reputation talk.

I am car enthusiast first, business owner second.
I help other car enthusiast as much as I possibly can.
Some even call me or drop an email or drop by just to chat digging my knowledge, and I am fine with it.

I've never met the dude but we've chatted about car stuff and that includes things he doesn't even carry... I've found him to be unbiased and informative... Never once has he pushed me to purchase something he carries...

Except the time he asked for a back rub for a discount but it sounded reasonable...

shoei · 01-18-2020, 05:05 PM

This is like the m340 vs M3 thread... You're going to have pundits for both... End of the day, they primarily do the same thing at negligibly the same performance - it comes down to preference... I have zero issues with either, I went both, but you're lying to yourself and others when you say a piggy is more superior...

Piggy's are like hearing aids... They add on and "piggy back" sometimes "tricking" the system... Tunes, the cars think this is how it is from the factory because you're rewriting some pre-existing code... Layman's terms obviously as I don't speak engineer, but you get the long and short of it... And this isn't encompassing ALL tunes and ALL piggy's... Generally speaking...

Doesn't matter though, cuz neither are beating Noelle...

r33_RGSport · 01-18-2020, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoei

I've never met the dude but we've chatted about car stuff and that includes things he doesn't even carry... I've found him to be unbiased and informative... Never once has he pushed me to purchase something he carries...

Except the time he asked for a back rub for a discount but it sounded reasonable...

You got the discount though, right?

:

AddyDaddy · 01-18-2020, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoei

This is like the m340 vs M3 thread... You're going to have pundits for both... End of the day, they primarily do the same thing at negligibly the same performance - it comes down to preference... I have zero issues with either, I went both, but you're lying to yourself and others when you say a piggy is more superior...

Piggy's are like hearing aids... They add on and "piggy back" sometimes "tricking" the system... Tunes, the cars think this is how it is from the factory because you're rewriting some pre-existing code... Layman's terms obviously as I don't speak engineer, but you get the long and short of it... And this isn't encompassing ALL tunes and ALL piggy's... Generally speaking...

Doesn't matter though, cuz neither are beating Noelle...

that noelle tune though!! Too funny

shoei · 01-18-2020, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoei

I've never met the dude but we've chatted about car stuff and that includes things he doesn't even carry... I've found him to be unbiased and informative... Never once has he pushed me to purchase something he carries...

Except the time he asked for a back rub for a discount but it sounded reasonable...

You got the discount though, right?

:

Where's my free HRE's you promised me for massaging your feet?!!

r33_RGSport · 01-18-2020, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoei

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoei

I've never met the dude but we've chatted about car stuff and that includes things he doesn't even carry... I've found him to be unbiased and informative... Never once has he pushed me to purchase something he carries...

Except the time he asked for a back rub for a discount but it sounded reasonable...

You got the discount though, right?

:

Where's my free HRE's you promised me for massaging your feet?!!

Waiting for BTC to hit $20k,

shoei · 01-18-2020, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoei

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoei

I've never met the dude but we've chatted about car stuff and that includes things he doesn't even carry... I've found him to be unbiased and informative... Never once has he pushed me to purchase something he carries...

Except the time he asked for a back rub for a discount but it sounded reasonable...

You got the discount though, right?

:

Where's my free HRE's you promised me for massaging your feet?!!

Waiting for BTC to hit $20k,

I see... So it's like waiting for Noelle dyno or vids, ehh?

(Yes, the Noelle thing hasn't gotten old yet for me, lol... I actually found myself making Noelle cracks irl, except people outside the forums have no clue what the fuck I'm talking about lol)

r33_RGSport · 01-18-2020, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoei

I see... So it's like waiting for Noelle dyno or vids, ehh?

(Yes, the Noelle thing hasn't gotten old yet for me, lol... I actually found myself making Noelle cracks irl, except people outside the forums have no clue what the fuck I'm talking about lol)

Nah, Noelle is more like waiting BTC to hit $50k.
Says someone who is selling RaceChip commenting in RaceChip thread.

I kid, I kid.

limeypride · 01-18-2020, 11:57 PM

Anyone know why the quick chat between 'Fuel It' and 'Onfire' was removed from this discussion?

shoei · 01-19-2020, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limeypride

Anyone know why the quick chat between 'Fuel It' and 'Onfire' was removed from this discussion?

Guessing something to do with showing the insides aka the mother boards...

The real outrage though is deleting my mother's board... Oh the audacity of it all... The heinosity, nay the disrespect!!! Is nothing sacred anymore?!!

limeypride · 01-19-2020, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoei

Guessing something to do with showing the insides aka the mother boards...

The real outrage though is deleting my mother's board... Oh the audacity of it all... The heinosity, nay the disrespect!!! Is nothing sacred anymore?!!

lol

But seriously, why can't we post pics of motherboards?

shoei · 01-19-2020, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limeypride

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoei

Guessing something to do with showing the insides aka the mother boards...

The real outrage though is deleting my mother's board... Oh the audacity of it all... The heinosity, nay the disrespect!!! Is nothing sacred anymore?!!

lol

But seriously, why can't we post pics of motherboards?

That's outta my pay grade I'm afraid...

01-18-2020, 01:47 AM	#112
Hockeytyme Captain 575 Rep 754 Posts Drives: 2020 M5C Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Orange County, CA. iTrader: (0)	So, let's put the warranty issue aside and just compare the tune vs. the piggyback. I'm currently running a piggy back and have some of the fastest times ever posted on Dragy for the F90. However, long term I do believe that a tune is better for the car. A tune actually feels like it runs smoother, and a tune allows you to keep more of the cars natural built in safety features from the DME in tact while just increasing the variables you want. No doubt the piggys can perform, as we have all seen. And to date they are out performing the tunes except a guy in Russia with turbos, tires, track, seats removed and that's not counting the normal mods. I think tunes perform better on the top end and they still allow you to limit some of the torque while pushing hp which is what causes most of the issues. A piggy doesn't allow that along with a number of other things a tune can. I think part of the reason you don't see the tunes outperforming the piggys is because they don't want a bad name if they blow a motor. Where as with a piggy, customers make their own changes and are responsible for them so a piggy company has less worries and the customer if willing can push the envelope more. I think if you were to buy some of the top tunes and you had the ability to go add more boost and change a couple things you would see the tunes putting up similar numbers. As much as my piggy has done for me and the crazy fast numbers I have gotten I'm still planning to run a tune long term and even try to push one at first and see what I can get out of it. I bought my car, so I want it to run good for the 4-7 years I own it, and I think the best chance of that is with a tune or tune with JB4 in conjunction. Sleep well F90 fam! __________________ DME: 1848 DA 0-60 2.42 -- 1/8 Mile 6.38 -- 1/4 Mile 9.89 -- 60-130 5.91 Evolve: 1418 DA 0-60 2.48 -- 1/8 Mile 6.47 -- 1/4 Mile 10.05 -- 60-130 6.48 JB4: 1096 DA 0-60 2.54 -- 1/8 Mile 6.50 -- 1/4 Mile 10.05 -- 60-130 6.18 IG: @hockeytyme All runs on street with no prep on 21 inch wheels and PS4S tires
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01-18-2020, 02:33 AM	#113
shoei Banned 7779 Rep 2,602 Posts Drives: MW Vespa w/pink racing stripes Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Peeing in your garden iTrader: (3)	Even with my leases I've done tunes... Well, both piggy and tunes I mean... What I do like about tunes is that it's consistent... Whenever I had a piggy, it wouldn't be 100% consistent and hockey said it best - it feels smoother... I couldn't agree more on the smoothness factor... Don't get me wrong, I have no issues with both, but my preference slides more towards custom tune... Risks with both, neither are 100% issue free or guaranteed to not blow anything, but we all know the risks and some happily take the plunge... Unless you get some tune off the forums suggestion cuz one dude is saying his butt dyno or how they're space shuttle endeavor numbers on all stock internals, then that's just stupid... But seriously... Dig both but to truly squeeze out ever drop of juice from our cars? It's gotta be a custom tune... Or tune and piggy... Oh, and if one gets Dinan tune, they also can just stroll into a dealership without worry... Some dealerships flag immediately if you have anything plugged into your obii port, so again, neither is 100% safe anyways... Plus, some of the tunes allow you to sell your license when you either sell / lease return your vehicle so if cost of a tune on a lease doesn't sit well with someone, they could recoup some of the cost...
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01-18-2020, 10:01 AM	#117
onfireX5 Brigadier General 3619 Rep 4,532 Posts Drives: F90M5,F85X5M Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Va iTrader: (0)	I’ve used two JB’s, three RaceChip, Cobb, one Dinan, have BM3 to play with and I build my own tunes from scratch on my 1500hp LS TT stuff plus some methanol ProMod stuff. It all comes down to what you want. On the smoothness issue, that is simple. The DME’s are airflow modeled. Not boost set point like the old stuff. Any piggy that has a fast processor that stays within the factory hysteresis will be smooth. (Basically a Stage 1) Go beyond that and it will never be as smooth as a DME tune as it is relying on corrections rather than directives.
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01-18-2020, 05:05 PM	#122
shoei Banned 7779 Rep 2,602 Posts Drives: MW Vespa w/pink racing stripes Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Peeing in your garden iTrader: (3)	This is like the m340 vs M3 thread... You're going to have pundits for both... End of the day, they primarily do the same thing at negligibly the same performance - it comes down to preference... I have zero issues with either, I went both, but you're lying to yourself and others when you say a piggy is more superior... Piggy's are like hearing aids... They add on and "piggy back" sometimes "tricking" the system... Tunes, the cars think this is how it is from the factory because you're rewriting some pre-existing code... Layman's terms obviously as I don't speak engineer, but you get the long and short of it... And this isn't encompassing ALL tunes and ALL piggy's... Generally speaking... Doesn't matter though, cuz neither are beating Noelle...
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01-18-2020, 11:57 PM	#129
limeypride Brigadier General 4428 Rep 4,109 Posts Drives: 2022 M8 Competition GC Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Orlando area, FL iTrader: (0)	Anyone know why the quick chat between 'Fuel It' and 'Onfire' was removed from this discussion?
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