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      10-12-2020, 03:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by iranjha View Post
Good to know. Seems to be the trend. Please update on how you like them as my trip is in March. Thanks!!! Did you put them on your OEM rims or did you buy a new set.

For everyone, is a staggered winter setup (buying the PA4s and putting them on my existing rims) bad for winter? Any experience?
OEM rims. Will post later this week! I had a staggered setup on my 17 X5M with no issues (both 20" and 22" sets)...
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      10-12-2020, 03:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by GhostOne_322 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iranjha View Post
Good to know. Seems to be the trend. Please update on how you like them as my trip is in March. Thanks!!! Did you put them on your OEM rims or did you buy a new set.

For everyone, is a staggered winter setup (buying the PA4s and putting them on my existing rims) bad for winter? Any experience?
OEM rims. Will post later this week! I had a staggered setup on my 17 X5M with no issues (both 20" and 22" sets)...
Cool. Alternate tread pattern and speed rating, didn't see that coming but if you had no problems then
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      10-12-2020, 03:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by GhostOne_322 View Post
The 275 /35/20 and 285/35/20 Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4s are on TireRack just search for them by size.
Just talked to a rep and they said front/rear have different speed ratings and tread patterns... 275/35/20 and 285/35/20. You guys have no issues?
Yeah, no issue with the michelin alpins different thread pattern. Used them last winter, and about to put them on again this winter
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      10-12-2020, 05:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by iranjha View Post
How many miles do they last usually? Trying to gauge how much wear 6k mile trip in variable weather would eat them. Leading towards Michelin as well
The Pirellis I had on my X5 lasted through 7 winters and I sold them with the X5 (mostly for the wheels, but they still had another season left on them). I don't know the exact miles that were on them, but they certainly lasted longer than I thought they would. I don't have any experience with the Michelins. In any case, I wouldn't worry about excess wear. These performance winter tires are designed to work with performance vehicles and, even though they are very good dealing with winter weather (they are rated for severe winter service) they are not the most extreme winter compound there is. They are designed to still perform in dry and medium temperatures.
Also, I used the same size, staggered, and they worked just fine in the snow.
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      10-12-2020, 07:43 PM   #27
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I have snows on factory rims (same size as summers) and got to say the handling was not too upsetting with the snows. Road noise not an issue. I have Pirelli's.

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      10-12-2020, 07:44 PM   #28
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I have snows on factory rims (same size as summers) and got to say the handling was not too upsetting with the snows. Road noise not an issue. I have Pirelli's.

Mike
Have you driven the Michelin's to compare? Roughly same price range and I've heard good things of Michelin and not so much the same about pirellis in general
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      10-12-2020, 07:54 PM   #29
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Just talked to a rep and they said front/rear have different speed ratings and tread patterns... 275/35/20 and 285/35/20. You guys have no issues?
I went with the same set up (mich Alpin PA4s) and I feel it is the best winter tire set I have ever had. Might be the car too! Stayed with stock size 275/35R20 and 285/35R20 given our weather here bounces around between really cold to mild to slush to warm nov-mar. No real downside to these winters even when warm out, have great wet traction, only thing you’ll notice is as you near the adhesion limit on warm pavement they start to drift a bit compared to the summer rubber - expected due to the winter rubber compound softening at temp and sipes. Like others said, winters will wear a lot faster if you run em a long time when it gets really warm out. The winter traction of these tires combined with the MXDrive is ridiculously perfect at getting power to ground in low friction cold environments. Jeeps, 4x4 pickups, Range Rover, Audi, you name it - never had anyone beat me off the line in winter if I was trying. Not that I condone such stupidity of course, I am just using my imagination - that said - lots of modded 4x4 guys in winter always stop after and ask “what the hell is that thing!”
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      10-12-2020, 07:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northtorque View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iranjha View Post
Just talked to a rep and they said front/rear have different speed ratings and tread patterns... 275/35/20 and 285/35/20. You guys have no issues?
I went with the same set up (mich Alpin PA4s) and I feel it is the best winter tire set I have ever had. Might be the car too! Stayed with stock size 275/35R20 and 285/35R20 given our weather here bounces around between really cold to mild to slush to warm nov-mar. No real downside to these winters even when warm out, have great wet traction, only thing you’ll notice is as you near the adhesion limit on warm pavement they start to drift a bit compared to the summer rubber - expected due to the winter rubber compound softening at temp and sipes. Like others said, winters will wear a lot faster if you run em a long time when it gets really warm out. The winter traction of these tires combined with the MXDrive is ridiculously perfect at getting power to ground in low friction cold environments. Jeeps, 4x4 pickups, Range Rover, Audi, you name it - never had anyone beat me off the line in winter if I was trying. Not that I condone such stupidity of course, I am just using my imagination - that said - lots of modded 4x4 guys in winter always stop after and ask “what the hell is that thing!”
Dang. I think your post just convinced me to buy them rn. Lol. Are you sure you're not a sales rep

This sounds perfect. The extra wear is not a huge deal to me because

1. This is a one time trip so this is the only set of tires that is impacted by extra wear
2. Like you, I'll be keeping original rims, so money saved on rims is still more than having to get new winter tires a season from now.

Where'd you guys get them from? Can the dealer order them for me and get them installed with my next service appt (coming up)? Or do they only installed the bmw sanctioned ones
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      10-12-2020, 09:32 PM   #31
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Dealer can do it. I ordered extra set of wheels and winters when I ordered the car. Took delivery the first week of November so I just had them put the winters on then. Summers sat in my garage all winter.
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      10-12-2020, 11:49 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iranjha View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by northtorque View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iranjha View Post
Just talked to a rep and they said front/rear have different speed ratings and tread patterns... 275/35/20 and 285/35/20. You guys have no issues?
I went with the same set up (mich Alpin PA4s) and I feel it is the best winter tire set I have ever had. Might be the car too! Stayed with stock size 275/35R20 and 285/35R20 given our weather here bounces around between really cold to mild to slush to warm nov-mar. No real downside to these winters even when warm out, have great wet traction, only thing you'll notice is as you near the adhesion limit on warm pavement they start to drift a bit compared to the summer rubber - expected due to the winter rubber compound softening at temp and sipes. Like others said, winters will wear a lot faster if you run em a long time when it gets really warm out. The winter traction of these tires combined with the MXDrive is ridiculously perfect at getting power to ground in low friction cold environments. Jeeps, 4x4 pickups, Range Rover, Audi, you name it - never had anyone beat me off the line in winter if I was trying. Not that I condone such stupidity of course, I am just using my imagination - that said - lots of modded 4x4 guys in winter always stop after and ask "what the hell is that thing!"
Dang. I think your post just convinced me to buy them rn. Lol. Are you sure you're not a sales rep

This sounds perfect. The extra wear is not a huge deal to me because

1. This is a one time trip so this is the only set of tires that is impacted by extra wear
2. Like you, I'll be keeping original rims, so money saved on rims is still more than having to get new winter tires a season from now.

Where'd you guys get them from? Can the dealer order them for me and get them installed with my next service appt (coming up)? Or do they only installed the bmw sanctioned ones
Dealer can order you pirellis winters, not michelins because, even in the same size the michelins winters are not OEM for M5
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      10-13-2020, 12:14 AM   #33
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don't go to dealer for new tires, but also make sure whoever swaps your tires don't scuff the rims up as well.
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      10-13-2020, 08:35 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iranjha View Post
Dang. I think your post just convinced me to buy them rn. Lol. Are you sure you're not a sales rep

This sounds perfect. The extra wear is not a huge deal to me because

1. This is a one time trip so this is the only set of tires that is impacted by extra wear
2. Like you, I'll be keeping original rims, so money saved on rims is still more than having to get new winter tires a season from now.

Where'd you guys get them from? Can the dealer order them for me and get them installed with my next service appt (coming up)? Or do they only installed the bmw sanctioned ones
I ordered mine through our local tire shop whom has a “touch-less” mounting machine for changing out the rubber to avoid scratches. As someone else mentioned, the dealer is often not willing to go with the Michelin’s because it is not an “approved” oem option - that is to say your asking for a special order item that the dealers profit margin will take a hit compared to the bmw NA approved option for which are ordered thousands of sets and they get a good invoice on. Technically, because the Alpin have different speed (or load?) ratings front vs back on the 275 vs 285 sizes the dealer will tell you this is why they won’t order and install such tires. That is hogwash of course. Go to a good reputable and local independent tire shop instead. If you have a good relationship with your dealer they might work with you of course, never hurts to ask.
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      10-13-2020, 09:08 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northtorque View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iranjha View Post
Dang. I think your post just convinced me to buy them rn. Lol. Are you sure you're not a sales rep

This sounds perfect. The extra wear is not a huge deal to me because

1. This is a one time trip so this is the only set of tires that is impacted by extra wear
2. Like you, I'll be keeping original rims, so money saved on rims is still more than having to get new winter tires a season from now.

Where'd you guys get them from? Can the dealer order them for me and get them installed with my next service appt (coming up)? Or do they only installed the bmw sanctioned ones
I ordered mine through our local tire shop whom has a “touch-less” mounting machine for changing out the rubber to avoid scratches. As someone else mentioned, the dealer is often not willing to go with the Michelin’s because it is not an “approved” oem option - that is to say your asking for a special order item that the dealers profit margin will take a hit compared to the bmw NA approved option for which are ordered thousands of sets and they get a good invoice on. Technically, because the Alpin have different speed (or load?) ratings front vs back on the 275 vs 285 sizes the dealer will tell you this is why they won’t order and install such tires. That is hogwash of course. Go to a good reputable and local independent tire shop instead. If you have a good relationship with your dealer they might work with you of course, never hurts to ask.
Just asked and they said no lol. How early do you guys switch to winter tires
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      10-13-2020, 09:24 AM   #36
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Just asked and they said no lol. How early do you guys switch to winter tires
I usually switch late oct or early nov depending on weather. I live in southwestern Ontario Canada so the weather here is all over the place so that is the main deciding factor.
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      10-13-2020, 11:47 AM   #37
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Have you driven the Michelin's to compare? Roughly same price range and I've heard good things of Michelin and not so much the same about pirellis in general
I have not used Michelin snows. My prior car had Dunlop Winter M3 which were speed rated to 120 mph. These current snows were all that was available in my size at the time I got them. I actually don't recall the speed raiting of the Pirellis.

The Dunlops were ok, but you could fell the squishiness. I used them also on my M2 that I drove for two winters.

My 97 M3 I used Blizaks and the Blizaks mark 2, and those were great in the snow, but you could really feel the road handling difference. I actually too a curve (dry road) to see if I could match my summer tire speeds and felt that "Loss of steering wheel input feel" of just about to loose adhesion. Not a great feeling. LOL.

I am ok with my current Pirellis on the M5.

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      10-13-2020, 12:02 PM   #38
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Speed rating on Pirelli Sottozero Serie II is W, which is 168mph.
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      10-13-2020, 01:53 PM   #39
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The time to make the switch is when the weather is consistently below 40°, regardless of snow or not. I had the staggered set up last year on the 20 rims and the car drove better than a previous X3 with all seasons.

I recommend ordering from tire rack as they have the best prices and having them shipped directly to the dealer. I use Bill Jacobs in Naperville, and they’re a pleasure to deal with. $120, for the swap and storage
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      10-13-2020, 04:04 PM   #40
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The time to make the switch is when the weather is consistently below 40°, regardless of snow or not. I had the staggered set up last year on the 20 rims and the car drove better than a previous X3 with all seasons.

I recommend ordering from tire rack as they have the best prices and having them shipped directly to the dealer. I use Bill Jacobs in Naperville, and they're a pleasure to deal with. $120, for the swap and storage
Holy crap we go to the same dealer lol who is your SA? I work with Stout and he can't order them but haven't asked if I could have them delivered
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      10-14-2020, 06:27 PM   #41
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Just ordered these guys to my dealer from tire rack, everything look good?
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      10-19-2020, 04:13 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iranjha View Post
Just talked to a rep and they said front/rear have different speed ratings and tread patterns... 275/35/20 and 285/35/20. You guys have no issues?
My understanding too, is that you shouldn't mix asymmetric and directional even if they are the same manufacturer and intended use case. This looks like that scenario. Note, I don't think it's the different speed rating that matters here, rather the tread pattern. I understand that it's worked for folks, but that doesn't mean it's optimized.

It might make more sense to run the 275 PA4's all around as they are fine on up to 11" wheels and the factory rears are just 10.5".

As for any concerns with rotational bias triggering ABS or stability control issues, the rotational bias difference from stock is just 1.2% which shouldn't cause issues (threshold is typically a 3% deviation from the stock ratio).

Last edited by ashmostro; 10-19-2020 at 04:19 PM..
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      10-19-2020, 04:16 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iranjha View Post
Just talked to a rep and they said front/rear have different speed ratings and tread patterns... 275/35/20 and 285/35/20. You guys have no issues?
My understanding too, is that you shouldn't mix asymmetric and directional even if they are the same manufacturer and intended use case. This looks like that scenario.

It might make more sense to run the 275's all around as they are safe on up to 11" wheels and the factory rears are just 10.5".

As for any concerns with rotational bias triggering ABS or stability control issues, the rotational bias difference from stock is just 1.2% which shouldn't cause issues (threshold is typically a 3% deviation from the stock ratio).
From everyone that I've talked to, it does not seem to be a problem either way. I just got the staggered setup delivered to the dealer
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      10-19-2020, 04:27 PM   #44
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Yeah, I've heard both arguments too. I just wanted to share the second option so folks can decide for themselves.
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