[Mr_M//]

Originally Posted by F87source

Personally I would run ecutek if I was this extensively modified. I personally believe there is no other tuning software that comes close to ecutek. From how clean the software is, to the table editor (BM3 does have a pretty good one), to the table access, how well their algorithms and logic code are written, and support ecutek gives. Literally ecutek has an army of some of the most brilliant minds in ecu tuning at their disposal to make these software packages.

I don’t know anything about ecutek, but I believe in your knowledge and experience, if it’s that much better I would consider it. How much does it cost?

[TheSandman_M2]

Originally Posted by Mr_M//

I don’t know anything about ecutek, but I believe in your knowledge and experience, if it’s that much better I would consider it. How much does it cost?

I think $1600 to get started, license, adapters and two maps. More for FF and more maps.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Mr_M//

I don’t know anything about ecutek, but I believe in your knowledge and experience, if it’s that much better I would consider it. How much does it cost?

OK I should elaborate because what I said prior is kind of inaccurate - I recently looked over all the tuning platforms closely and Im starting to change how I feel about all of this (I realized some of my knowledge base I drew on was old and outdated, and I am seeing massive work coming in from all the platforms), and sorry I didn't see this earlier, someone just dm'ed me on IG earlier today about this and I didn't have time to reply till now.

1. In terms of tuning - a few things come into play:

a) in regards to table access if you have a good tuner with MHD they will have a DAMOS of the ecu you have and thereby giving them perfectly mapped access to all of the tables available on the ecu. With BM3 and Ecutek the tables are predefined (I think a few are still missing but not critical to tuning, because not every ecu table is tuning related). Now this is the tricky part, not every MHD tuner (from what I have seen in the past) has all of the tables or even the same tables - some have more some have less, likely because tuners are extremely busy with work and tune more than just 1 platform. So they don't spend alot of time in table discovery mode to build up their own table base to its full potential and just use predefined XDF files + their own personalizations (essentially defining only tables that will be used for tuning the engine to make more power, pretty much what BM3 and ecutek have predefined) so some tables are missing. Is this super critical? No because not all tables are used for making power - remember not all the thousands of ecu tables are used for power making, alot of them are used for hardware calibration settings and pretty much only a small fraction of those thousands of tables will ever been tuned or altered. Personally I still prefer having all the tables + when the tuning companies predefine all the tables because it puts less burden on the tuner and just allows them to focus on tuning for their customers and to experiment with things. This also makes it easier for a customer to find a tuner, not having to worry one tuner is more advantaged than another but not knowing which one. I'm also certain that BM3 will eventually put every single possible table that is available on the ECU into their table editor, they put a massive effort into making their new table editor so incredibly excellent I wouldn't be surprised if very soon they had all the tables (this is another reason why I am so impressed with BM3, the rate they are progressing is astounding).

b) Table editor: a good table editor makes it easier for the tuner to make changes accurately, and quickly. This puts less work load on them and allows them to be more efficent thereby being less faitgued and dial things in better. This is where ECUTEK and BM3 shine, they have superb table editors with very good logic for smoothing and interpolation. Personally I think both of these new table editors outshine tuner pro.

c) Logic code: on ECUTEK the racerom logic has been proven on some of the fastest cars in the world, so I think it is superior to all current platforms. However BM3 recently is making the right hires and are catching up fast in terms of improving existing code and brining in new features. So I think there is a chance BM3 catches ECUTEK. MHD is making progress but they seem to be alot quieter.



Overall in the aspect of tuning if you have a good tuner making the maps, the base changes to a car from all 3 tunes should be the same because we are making changes to the same finite ecu tables.


Where the difference really comes in is the features and support, and this is where BM3 and ECUTEK pull ahead of MHD imo, and recently where I think BM3 is starting to develop the edge in becoming the best overall platform. Lets quickly get into this (I'm not going to put too much detail into this):

1) BM3 has developed a really nice new GUI, making the app alot cleaner, smoother, and overall better to use. I think this is the best app I have ever seen GUI wise, it is so nice! I recently saw BM3's team video youtube and they really are putting in a massive hiring campaign in over the last few years to push BM3 into the next level.

2) Support BM3 and ECUTEK use atlassian's Jira software, this allows them to take care of support request amd bug fixes in a super clean and high level way. This is also how massive billion dollar companies handle support ticket requests, and this is how you offer excellent customer service to customers and to tuners. This also ties into their developement side as well so it essentially allows their entire team to be managed via atlassian's management software keeping everyone on the same page while working and aware of any bugs, so customer service can relay problems to upper level easier. This is so much more advanced than just email threads.

3) Features: BM3 has lag between shift fix (from what I can tell no one else offers this yet), a nice editor, and very nice new hardware (Flex fuel canbus interface and wifi adapter)

MHD has PI coil shut off, and a new nice wifi adapter

-- And the big one is that MHD and BM3 let you change these features without a tuner, and this is a massive one for me because I hate ecutek's heavy reliance on the tuner.

Ecutek hasn't launched anything new as of yet.


Anyways this was just a quick overview, I have alot more to say but it would be alot to say.



So in summary I think the other 2 (MHD and BM3) have recently made a massive stride towards ecutek, and are right there now, and in some cases far exceed ecutek (user customization rather than relying on a tuner, OTS maps, GUI + a bunch of super nice features - for BM3). So personally I wouldn't trade in these other 2 platforms for ecutek just yet, the tuning scene is developing so fast right now.

In fact I'm personally now leaning towards BM3 and have plans to switch to them from MHD, because I really really believe in the progress they're making. I've seen their youtube videos, I've seen their news releases, I've seen their commitment to be better with the massive hires they made which have lead to a monsterous increase in capability, and I'm convinced they're going to be the best tuning platform in the near future. Ecutek just isn't really for me because it is so tuner reliant.

[wheela]

F87source, well said. This site really needs a like button.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by wheela

F87source, well said. This site really needs a like button.

Thanks for the kind words!

There is a like button it's in the bottom left corner of the the post called appreciate.

[terryd5150]

Originally Posted by wheela

F87source, well said. This site really needs a like button.

There is but you have to be in desktop mode to see it - at least that's the case with my Samsung Galaxy phones.

[Mr_M//]

Originally Posted by F87source

OK I should elaborate because what I said prior is kind of inaccurate - I recently looked over all the tuning platforms closely and Im starting to change how I feel about all of this (I realized some of my knowledge base I drew on was old and outdated, and I am seeing massive work coming in from all the platforms), and sorry I didn't see this earlier, someone just dm'ed me on IG earlier today about this and I didn't have time to reply till now.

1. In terms of tuning - a few things come into play:

a) in regards to table access if you have a good tuner with MHD they will have a DAMOS of the ecu you have and thereby giving them perfectly mapped access to all of the tables available on the ecu. With BM3 and Ecutek the tables are predefined (I think a few are still missing but not critical to tuning, because not every ecu table is tuning related). Now this is the tricky part, not every MHD tuner (from what I have seen in the past) has all of the tables or even the same tables - some have more some have less, likely because tuners are extremely busy with work and tune more than just 1 platform. So they don't spend alot of time in table discovery mode to build up their own table base to its full potential and just use predefined XDF files + their own personalizations (essentially defining only tables that will be used for tuning the engine to make more power, pretty much what BM3 and ecutek have predefined) so some tables are missing. Is this super critical? No because not all tables are used for making power - remember not all the thousands of ecu tables are used for power making, alot of them are used for hardware calibration settings and pretty much only a small fraction of those thousands of tables will ever been tuned or altered. Personally I still prefer having all the tables + when the tuning companies predefine all the tables because it puts less burden on the tuner and just allows them to focus on tuning for their customers and to experiment with things. This also makes it easier for a customer to find a tuner, not having to worry one tuner is more advantaged than another but not knowing which one. I'm also certain that BM3 will eventually put every single possible table that is available on the ECU into their table editor, they put a massive effort into making their new table editor so incredibly excellent I wouldn't be surprised if very soon they had all the tables (this is another reason why I am so impressed with BM3, the rate they are progressing is astounding).

b) Table editor: a good table editor makes it easier for the tuner to make changes accurately, and quickly. This puts less work load on them and allows them to be more efficent thereby being less faitgued and dial things in better. This is where ECUTEK and BM3 shine, they have superb table editors with very good logic for smoothing and interpolation. Personally I think both of these new table editors outshine tuner pro.

c) Logic code: on ECUTEK the racerom logic has been proven on some of the fastest cars in the world, so I think it is superior to all current platforms. However BM3 recently is making the right hires and are catching up fast in terms of improving existing code and brining in new features. So I think there is a chance BM3 catches ECUTEK. MHD is making progress but they seem to be alot quieter.



Overall in the aspect of tuning if you have a good tuner making the maps, the base changes to a car from all 3 tunes should be the same because we are making changes to the same finite ecu tables.


Where the difference really comes in is the features and support, and this is where BM3 and ECUTEK pull ahead of MHD imo, and recently where I think BM3 is starting to develop the edge in becoming the best overall platform. Lets quickly get into this (I'm not going to put too much detail into this):

1) BM3 has developed a really nice new GUI, making the app alot cleaner, smoother, and overall better to use. I think this is the best app I have ever seen GUI wise, it is so nice! I recently saw BM3's team video youtube and they really are putting in a massive hiring campaign in over the last few years to push BM3 into the next level.

2) Support BM3 and ECUTEK use atlassian's Jira software, this allows them to take care of support request amd bug fixes in a super clean and high level way. This is also how massive billion dollar companies handle support ticket requests, and this is how you offer excellent customer service to customers and to tuners. This also ties into their developement side as well so it essentially allows their entire team to be managed via atlassian's management software keeping everyone on the same page while working and aware of any bugs, so customer service can relay problems to upper level easier. This is so much more advanced than just email threads.

3) Features: BM3 has lag between shift fix (from what I can tell no one else offers this yet), a nice editor, and very nice new hardware (Flex fuel canbus interface and wifi adapter)

MHD has PI coil shut off, and a new nice wifi adapter

-- And the big one is that MHD and BM3 let you change these features without a tuner, and this is a massive one for me because I hate ecutek's heavy reliance on the tuner.

Ecutek hasn't launched anything new as of yet.


Anyways this was just a quick overview, I have alot more to say but it would be alot to say.



So in summary I think the other 2 (MHD and BM3) have recently made a massive stride towards ecutek, and are right there now, and in some cases far exceed ecutek (user customization rather than relying on a tuner, OTS maps, GUI + a bunch of super nice features - for BM3). So personally I wouldn't trade in these other 2 platforms for ecutek just yet, the tuning scene is developing so fast right now.

In fact I'm personally now leaning towards BM3 and have plans to switch to them from MHD, because I really really believe in the progress they're making. I've seen their youtube videos, I've seen their news releases, I've seen their commitment to be better with the massive hires they made which have lead to a monsterous increase in capability, and I'm convinced they're going to be the best tuning platform in the near future. Ecutek just isn't really for me because it is so tuner reliant.

I switched already to ECUTEk, so far the support and the communications from bend calibration has been great

[MetalM2]

Originally Posted by Mr_M//

I switched already to ECUTEk, so far the support and the communications from bend calibration has been great

I can 2nd this sentiment. I just had Bend Calibration, utilizing ECUTek, finalize tuning of my LCI M2 with a newly installed TTE 460 turbo. They were extremely responsive, patient, professional and diligent. It always felt like they were as patient and determined to achieve my particular power goals as I was. I understand though that those who are knowledgeable enough may be inclined to "DIY" the tuning themselves, which is not an option for the typical ECUTek client.

[wheela]

Originally Posted by terryd5150

There is but you have to be in desktop mode to see it - at least that's the case with my Samsung Galaxy phones.

Ah, no wonder, I'm always in here on my phone. Thanks!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by terryd5150

There is but you have to be in desktop mode to see it - at least that's the case with my Samsung Galaxy phones.

I'm mostly on here with my phone too (Google Pixel), however I set chrome to default bimmerpost to desktop mode.

Originally Posted by Mr_M//

I switched already to ECUTEk, so far the support and the communications from bend calibration has been great

Good to hear! I hope bend will tune with BM3 (for the n55) in the future.

Originally Posted by MetalM2

I can 2nd this sentiment. I just had Bend Calibration, utilizing ECUTek, finalize tuning of my LCI M2 with a newly installed TTE 460 turbo. They were extremely responsive, patient, professional and diligent. It always felt like they were as patient and determined to achieve my particular power goals as I was. I understand though that those who are knowledgeable enough may be inclined to "DIY" the tuning themselves, which is not an option for the typical ECUTek client.

Personally that isn't the only factor making me choose BM3 over ecutek, the problem with ecutek is you are always dependent on the tuner no matter what.

- You want to change TMAP sensors? You need a tuner.
- You just got a new HPFP? Well guess what you need a tuner.
- You got a new coil kit - guess what? Tuner.
- You got new injectors? Tuner.
- You want to change burbles or if rev match is on in different driving modes? Tuner.

This can also be horrific if it's during a holiday and your tuner is away, or if you are like me and fiddle with settings non-stop. It will also suck if your tuner is really busy and can't make the change for you right away. This is a complaint unrelated to bend, but more a limitation towards ecutek.

[VGSON]

My car is currently in the shop. Pure750, dorche stage 2, MHD flex fuel sensor, FTP inlet, Diverter Valve, and intercooler are being installed.

Already has boost pipe, charge pipe, downpipe and drop in filter installed. Will be tuned on MHD. Will be running base MHD briefly, then custom by local guy or Cary Jordan.

Won't be posting dyno numbers. IF anything I'll borrow my buddies dragy

[ericlr1225]

Originally Posted by VGSON

My car is currently in the shop. Pure750, dorche stage 2, MHD flex fuel sensor, FTP inlet, Diverter Valve, and intercooler are being installed.

Already has boost pipe, charge pipe, downpipe and drop in filter installed. Will be tuned on MHD. Will be running base MHD briefly, then custom by local guy or Cary Jordan.

Won't be posting dyno numbers. IF anything I'll borrow my buddies dragy

If you can post some logs with pure750, that would be very nice of you. I got similar mods as you do and M'm considering Pure750 too. Thanks

[3t3p]

MHD piss me off they're just not as willing to be at the cutting edge as BM3 are. I'm likely to jump ship esp being 6MT for that lag shift fix.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

MHD piss me off they're just not as willing to be at the cutting edge as BM3 are. I'm likely to jump ship esp being 6MT for that lag shift fix.

I literally feel the exact same way (but in other aspects like the APP interface and the flex fuel kit where BM3 just feels light years ahead), in fact i've already jumped ship. Bm3 indepth review coming soon. If you guys remember, in the past I was hugely in favor of MHD saying it was better than bm3 because of it's potential and previous experience with the n54. I was also extremely critical of bm3. Well bm3 proved me wrong in EVERY single critical remark I had made in the past, they literally humbled me and made me eat my words (to give myself some tiny credit, I always said I would be flexible in my judgement and pick whatever tuning platform I saw as the best, I knew back in 2018 when I first got MHD that tuning was way too immature to commit to one platform and I'd have to wait a bit before committing, well I've made my commitment and it's to bm3 now). Now seeing their progress I really believe they'll even surpass ecutek, and I'm on board the bm3 train now.

But I think the reason why bm3 are able to push so far ahead of the others right now, is because of the major hires they have made. They have so much talent behind them it's allowing them to make massive leaps and bounds - and really quickly too. For instance they released flex fuel and the advanced features even sooner than MHD, despite MHD announcing them first. They've done this exact thing on other platforms like the supra too. So that goes to show how committed bm3 is to getting better and being the best, they're really investing heavily into bm3 and not sitting back on their laurels.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

MHD piss me off they're just not as willing to be at the cutting edge as BM3 are. I'm likely to jump ship esp being 6MT for that lag shift fix.

Just get a custom tune, it will be better than any BM3 off the shelf solution and cost the same.

Load based tuning is also better than boost based in my opinion. My car will change valve timing, timing, fuel and boost to meet the load requirements and power it needs to.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Just get a custom tune, it will be better than any BM3 off the shelf solution and cost the same.

Load based tuning is also better than boost based in my opinion. My car will change valve timing, timing, fuel and boost to meet the load requirements and power it needs to.

Well, obviously a custom tune will out perform an OTS map that's pretty much a given. However, you will still lack alot of the BM3 features that MHD has yet to pick up on. The largest one is "lag between shift fix" - which is still unresolved on a custom tune (alot of people have gotten custom tunes and have yet to resolve it), BM3 has said that they will tell their network of tuners how to fix this issue on a custom tune if tuned on BM3. So it seems to be a BM3 exclusive for the time being. BM3 also has their fancy new table editor which is extremely nice, a revamped GUI that offers so much more flexibility over anything MHD can even come close to, and an upcoming canbus integration unit that will alot multiple canbus i/o inputs. Their flex fuel kit is also way better than most things on the market, because it has a built in bypass valve to prevent fuel flow restrictions, whereas the competition doesn't.


You can get load based tuning on BM3 as well - if you custom tune, all of the tables are there and you can tune it for load based if you wanted to.

[VGSON]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

MHD piss me off they're just not as willing to be at the cutting edge as BM3 are. I'm likely to jump ship esp being 6MT for that lag shift fix.

Did MHD’s new “no lift shift” option resolve this?

Or does it still persist?

Should probably move most of this discussion to the mhd tuning thread vs pure 750. Might get their attention

I got you Eric..^

[F87source]

Originally Posted by VGSON

Did MHD’s new “no lift shift” option resolve this?

Or does it still persist?

Should probably move most of this discussion to the mhd tuning thread vs pure 750. Might get their attention

I got you Eric..^

No lift shift is completely different, you have to keep the gas pedal all the way down (WOT) then clutch in and shift. So this is impractical in all street applications except racing. I don't believe it works unless you're wot.

Bm3 allows you to drive normally (foot off gas before shifting) and still retain the lag fix.


Mhd isn't active on the forum anymore, and we've already asked for the lag fix and they've only brought in no lift shift. when I asked years ago they also told me NLS was their upcoming fix and that was it. The only mhd platform with true lag fix was the n54 with the shift bog fix. Otherwise you'll have to go bm3 if you want true shift lag fix.


So I gave up on MHD, and imo BM3 is way better at bringing in customer requested features.

[atlas]

So has anyone actually bought a Pure 500 yet?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by atlas

So has anyone actually bought a Pure 500 yet?

Not to my knowledge.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by atlas

So has anyone actually bought a Pure 500 yet?

Yes, a few F30 guys have it

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by atlas

So has anyone actually bought a Pure 500 yet?

Originally Posted by F87source

Not to my knowledge.

We sold ~ 10 kits