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BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 Pricing, Ordering, Tracking, and European Delivery    Ceramic Brake Option.

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      09-01-2019, 08:22 PM   #23
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Worth every penny just for the lack of brake dust alone. Just fine when they are cold and amazing bite when up to temp.
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      09-01-2019, 10:54 PM   #24
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CCB are obviously the best for fade resistance, longevity in normal non-track use, and lower mass/rotating inertia... but I don’t believe you stop any faster nor have any better braking distances as that should be a function of adhesion at the tire/road surface. (ABS control at impending lock-up be equal). Maybe the lower mass makes a minor delta? Any comparisons out there between stopping distances on standard vs ccb with same model vehicle and tires?
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      09-03-2019, 10:58 AM   #25
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I just got back from a 2-day M performance driving school in SC over the weekend and one of the first things I noticed was that all of the M4C's and M5C's that we drove were fitted with CCB's. I asked them why they decided on this, and they said it's actually cheaper to fit them versus steels because the rotors and pads get chewed up way too quick with steels. You may go thru multiple sets of steel rotors and pads before making a big payment towards replacing the CCB's. So while the CCB replacement cost is expensive, the multiple replacement costs for steels adds up. The CCB's apparently last for much longer than people on here are stating when taking to the track.

We were beating the absolute shit out of these cars and not a single hint of brake fade!
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      09-03-2019, 12:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windtendo View Post
I just got back from a 2-day M performance driving school in SC over the weekend and one of the first things I noticed was that all of the M4C's and M5C's that we drove were fitted with CCB's. I asked them why they decided on this, and they said it's actually cheaper to fit them versus steels because the rotors and pads get chewed up way too quick with steels. You may go thru multiple sets of steel rotors and pads before making a big payment towards replacing the CCB's. So while the CCB replacement cost is expensive, the multiple replacement costs for steels adds up. The CCB's apparently last for much longer than people on here are stating when taking to the track.

We were beating the absolute shit out of these cars and not a single hint of brake fade!
That is interesting - I totally get the fade resistance, inertia benefit and that a set of ccb pads & rotors will outlive a single set of steels. But when cost is factored into the equation, I have noticed lotsa people on the forum that track their cars saying the opposite perspective (they choose steels). I am guessing you could do 5 or more(?) steel rotor/ pad break changes for the price of one ccb rotor / pad change ( don’t quote me it’s just a guess, I’m sure someone has hard numbers!). I think from BMW NA’s perspective it makes sense to use CCB at the performance centre because it maybe incrementally a bit safer from a fade resistance stand point for the range of driver skill coming through on cars tracked all day.... but no doubt there is also an advertising angle to all of this to tip people into optioning CCBs on their cars.... ie if the performance centre can leverage tens of thousands in additional brake service costs per year (on their cars) but in turn convince an additional few dozen people to option the CCB when ordering a car then mission accomplished - high fives all around the boardroom table ( cue cynical smile )
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      09-03-2019, 01:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyDad View Post
Even GT3 owners who track their car immediately replace CCB after buying pre-owned cars.
Not all. The Gen III Porsche PCCBs will survive a lot of track day use and there are plenty of owners that track them. And there are aftermarket CCB rotor replacements that are much cheaper than the Porsche OEM rotors.
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      12-01-2019, 08:01 AM   #28
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I am very near placing my order for a 2020 M5C. The last decision for me is whether to get CCB or not.

I live in South Carolina. Weather here is warm to mild, with a very rare occurrence of freezing temps, and snow is almost never seen. We had a snow storm a couple of years ago and that was the first snow since 1989, so it essentially never happens.

I do not track my cars and I don't intend to, but I do drive fast on the highway when traffic permits (which is most of the time).

This would be a 3 year lease and I would not put more than 12k miles on the car per year.


So, given the info above, it seems like ordering CCB should mean that I would not change pads and rotors during the time I own the car, is that probably correct?

What would be the expected number of times to change normal pads and/or rotors in 36,000 miles on a daily?
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      12-01-2019, 10:42 AM   #29
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I live in a cold and wintery Canadian city. I leased my 2019 M5 and I don't track it, but I do like the 1/4 mile strip. I would get CCB again in a heartbeat. Lack of squeaking and brake dust alone is worth it. Besides, it is not really a $10,000 option when you lease it, it is $5,000 as you only pay for around 1/2. If you go to buy it after 3 years, then you would really like the fact that you won't be replacing brakes for a while.
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      12-01-2019, 12:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
I am very near placing my order for a 2020 M5C. The last decision for me is whether to get CCB or not.

I live in South Carolina. Weather here is warm to mild, with a very rare occurrence of freezing temps, and snow is almost never seen. We had a snow storm a couple of years ago and that was the first snow since 1989, so it essentially never happens.

I do not track my cars and I don't intend to, but I do drive fast on the highway when traffic permits (which is most of the time).

This would be a 3 year lease and I would not put more than 12k miles on the car per year.


So, given the info above, it seems like ordering CCB should mean that I would not change pads and rotors during the time I own the car, is that probably correct?

What would be the expected number of times to change normal pads and/or rotors in 36,000 miles on a daily?
Both brakes should serve you just fine during your lease though the terrain you drive through and braking habits would play a role too.
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      12-05-2019, 10:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
So, given the info above, it seems like ordering CCB should mean that I would not change pads and rotors during the time I own the car, is that probably correct?
We have carbon-ceramics on our Cayenne Turbo. We did a lot of research before pulling the trigger, considering a chipped rotor can put a $5K dent in your wallet. But the benefits outweighed the initial upgrade cost (about $5K in our case; $8K on a standard Cayenne) and long-term risk.

To answer your question, carbon-ceramic rotors are basically a lifetime wear item in normal, general daily driver use. You should see at least 200K miles before they need replacing. If you track them, they may / will wear prematurely. Lots of Porsche guys yank their PCCB rotors when going to the track and replace them with steel / cast iron to avoid the possibility of a $20K track session.

Brake pads will wear at the same rate as any other. But as a general rule, they're not any more expensive than standard German performance pads. You might pay $300 to $500 per set, whether you have CCBs or standard brakes. Not a big deal.

The brake dust reduction is real. I'm OCD about our cars. The brake dust on our Chevy SS with its cast-iron Brembos all around is obscene, no different than most German cars with performance brakes. Our Cayenne MAY leave a light coating of translucent, sand-colored dust after a week or two of hard driving. But you'll never see it until you run your finger over a wheel.

I don't think you can go wrong with the standard F90 cast-iron brakes, or the upgraded CCBs, assuming BMW has engineered them not to be noisy when cold. The PCCBs on our Cayenne never make a sound. And for standard street use, you'll never see the increased fade resistance of carbon-ceramics.

We're close special-ordering an M5 Comp. And we still haven't decided on the brakes. Both types have their merits and demerits. I personally believe it's a coin flip overall, after factoring in multiple cast-iron rotor replacements over that 200K-plus service life of carbon-ceramic rotors.

If I had to guess, we'll bite the initial bullet and option CCBs on our Comp.
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      12-06-2019, 05:57 AM   #32
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200k miles for CCBs is a bit of a stretch.
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      12-06-2019, 06:35 AM   #33
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Get the CCB, no squeaking and zero brake dust.

I live in Switzerland where winters can be long and cold, at least it used to be in the past and it's not very comfortable outside recently.
The brakes do not need to get warm in order to stop on the dime. I really don't see how a car of this size and weight could break any better.

Though I do not track the car (why would I want to track a 2ton sedan anyway...), so don't know if I would go for CCB if I would race the car.
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      12-06-2019, 04:59 PM   #34
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I would never order CCBs again for M5. I went through a bunch of steels on F10 before and got CCBs on F90 to try, but short of track driving I do not recommend them. No brake dust is great, but they are loud and the modulation is rather awful. There is a 1/4’’ effective brake travel on mine so they are pretty binary in feel.

I have a GT3 with PCCBs and they are a completely different story. Modulation is great and they are very quiet in regular street driving. Can’t speak for M5 CCBs longevity, but the new Porsche rotors are pretty good in that department so I am happy tracking them.

My 2 cents.
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      12-07-2019, 12:37 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R123 View Post
I would never order CCBs again for M5. I went through a bunch of steels on F10 before and got CCBs on F90 to try, but short of track driving I do not recommend them. No brake dust is great, but they are loud and the modulation is rather awful. There is a 1/4’’ effective brake travel on mine so they are pretty binary in feel.
Man, thanks for posting that. I really appreciate it. We optioned PCCBs on our Cayenne without a test-drive (the car wasn't out yet). Gambled and won, at least so far. I'll make a point to see if I can drive an F90 with CCBs before making a decision. Porsche is known for incredible brakes. BMW, not so much. Standard steel / cast iron may be the smart choice on this car.
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      12-07-2019, 06:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R123 View Post
I would never order CCBs again for M5. I went through a bunch of steels on F10 before and got CCBs on F90 to try, but short of track driving I do not recommend them. No brake dust is great, but they are loud and the modulation is rather awful. There is a 1/4’’ effective brake travel on mine so they are pretty binary in feel.

I have a GT3 with PCCBs and they are a completely different story. Modulation is great and they are very quiet in regular street driving. Can’t speak for M5 CCBs longevity, but the new Porsche rotors are pretty good in that department so I am happy tracking them.

My 2 cents.

Thanks for the help. It sounds like CCB might not be worth the extra expense for me. I think I am going to order standard brakes. Lower dust is tempting, but I am going to have the wheels Modesta coated when I take delivery so the dust should be more manageable.
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      12-07-2019, 11:48 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
Thanks for the help. It sounds like CCB might not be worth the extra expense for me. I think I am going to order standard brakes. Lower dust is tempting, but I am going to have the wheels Modesta coated when I take delivery so the dust should be more manageable.
I coated my wheels and while they rinse off easier, it is by no means a perfect solution. Dust will still accumulate at pretty much the same as non-coated wheels. And when you wash you still need to scrub the wheels, it is only easier to rinse off. But much more will come off when you use a power washer during initial rinse. (I have two sets of wheels and that is where the basis of my comparison comes from.) If dust really bothers you, get CCB. This is coming from someone with steel brakes. If I were to do it again, I would probably get CCB over a competition package.
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      12-07-2019, 12:04 PM   #38
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Going on 2 years now with the CCB, and I will never buy another car with steel brakes. The comp pack is less value than putting that money into CCBs.
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      12-07-2019, 12:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCWLS3 View Post
We have carbon-ceramics on our Cayenne Turbo. We did a lot of research before pulling the trigger, considering a chipped rotor can put a $5K dent in your wallet. But the benefits outweighed the initial upgrade cost (about $5K in our case; $8K on a standard Cayenne) and long-term risk.

To answer your question, carbon-ceramic rotors are basically a lifetime wear item in normal, general daily driver use. You should see at least 200K miles before they need replacing. If you track them, they may / will wear prematurely. Lots of Porsche guys yank their PCCB rotors when going to the track and replace them with steel / cast iron to avoid the possibility of a $20K track session.

Brake pads will wear at the same rate as any other. But as a general rule, they're not any more expensive than standard German performance pads. You might pay $300 to $500 per set, whether you have CCBs or standard brakes. Not a big deal.

The brake dust reduction is real. I'm OCD about our cars. The brake dust on our Chevy SS with its cast-iron Brembos all around is obscene, no different than most German cars with performance brakes. Our Cayenne MAY leave a light coating of translucent, sand-colored dust after a week or two of hard driving. But you'll never see it until you run your finger over a wheel.

I don't think you can go wrong with the standard F90 cast-iron brakes, or the upgraded CCBs, assuming BMW has engineered them not to be noisy when cold. The PCCBs on our Cayenne never make a sound. And for standard street use, you'll never see the increased fade resistance of carbon-ceramics.

We're close special-ordering an M5 Comp. And we still haven't decided on the brakes. Both types have their merits and demerits. I personally believe it's a coin flip overall, after factoring in multiple cast-iron rotor replacements over that 200K-plus service life of carbon-ceramic rotors.

If I had to guess, we'll bite the initial bullet and option CCBs on our Comp.


lets be honest, none of these cars are making it to 200k. LOL

rotors are least of your worries.
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      12-07-2019, 12:49 PM   #40
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CCBs all the way!!! Never going back to a performance car with steel brakes - Period!
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      12-08-2019, 12:16 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
lets be honest, none of these cars are making it to 200k. LOL
Interesting point re: BMW long-term reliability and build quality. We've never owned a BMW, so I defer to you guys as the experts. But tons of Porsches make it to 200K and well beyond -- you can read thread after thread on Rennlist about it. Mechanically, it's no secret that Porsche overbuilds its cars. (Electronically, post 2017, that's a different story altogether.)

Thanks for posting this. Good to know. I wouldn't keep our proposed M5 Comp past four or five years and about 60K miles anyway, so it's a moot point. CCB rotor wear in our case is truly a Somebody Else's Problem.
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      08-29-2022, 07:32 AM   #42
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Need some help with a Warranty/Maintenance plan question - I pick up my '22 M5 Comp includes the Carbon Ceramic Brakes, in the next 1-2 days at the dealership.

I drive a lot of miles (30-40k/year, lot of highway miles), and want to cover my car with decent maintenance/warranty. I'll blow through a 3 year maintenance/warranty in just 1 to 1.5 years. Was thinking about adding Bmw Ultimate Care+Plus, when I saw it covers brakes, rotors, pads, etc. too, I was leaning in favor of doing it (6y/125,000 miles about $6,449 cost).

https://bmwusaservice.com/ultimatecare

But then I read in the fine print at the bottom - "BMW vehicles equipped with Carbon Ceramic brakes are not eligible for BMW Ultimate Care+ upgrades or extensions."

Is there any plan with BMW, warranty or maintenance that will completely cover the CCB option ??? (probably 'maintenance' plan I guess, over and above warranty, since I am wanting covered even a routine brake job for these, which still sounds hella expensive even at 75-100k miles if its $15k, I'd rather pay $6k now for peace of mind).

If anyone here / nonbiased Bmw employee can help direct me, I'd really be grateful. I want to be covered for routine maintenance and replacements of the CCB, should anything happen.

Sorry for the repost, just a little confused that Bmw doesn't want to offer any extended coverage for a $15-16k CCB brake job.

Thank you for all your guys' help!
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      08-29-2022, 07:34 AM   #43
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in your research did you look at extending coverage at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCWLS3 View Post
We have carbon-ceramics on our Cayenne Turbo. We did a lot of research before pulling the trigger, considering a chipped rotor can put a $5K dent in your wallet. But the benefits outweighed the initial upgrade cost (about $5K in our case; $8K on a standard Cayenne) and long-term risk.

To answer your question, carbon-ceramic rotors are basically a lifetime wear item in normal, general daily driver use. You should see at least 200K miles before they need replacing. If you track them, they may / will wear prematurely. Lots of Porsche guys yank their PCCB rotors when going to the track and replace them with steel / cast iron to avoid the possibility of a $20K track session.

Brake pads will wear at the same rate as any other. But as a general rule, they're not any more expensive than standard German performance pads. You might pay $300 to $500 per set, whether you have CCBs or standard brakes. Not a big deal.

The brake dust reduction is real. I'm OCD about our cars. The brake dust on our Chevy SS with its cast-iron Brembos all around is obscene, no different than most German cars with performance brakes. Our Cayenne MAY leave a light coating of translucent, sand-colored dust after a week or two of hard driving. But you'll never see it until you run your finger over a wheel.

I don't think you can go wrong with the standard F90 cast-iron brakes, or the upgraded CCBs, assuming BMW has engineered them not to be noisy when cold. The PCCBs on our Cayenne never make a sound. And for standard street use, you'll never see the increased fade resistance of carbon-ceramics.

We're close special-ordering an M5 Comp. And we still haven't decided on the brakes. Both types have their merits and demerits. I personally believe it's a coin flip overall, after factoring in multiple cast-iron rotor replacements over that 200K-plus service life of carbon-ceramic rotors.

If I had to guess, we'll bite the initial bullet and option CCBs on our Comp.
Hey JCWLS3 in your extensive research, did you look at added Warranty/Maintenance plan coverage ?

I was leaning towards Ult Care+Plus, but I just saw in the fine print it specifically excludes CCB...
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      08-29-2022, 02:56 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLeaderXI View Post
Hey JCWLS3 in your extensive research, did you look at added Warranty/Maintenance plan coverage ?

I was leaning towards Ult Care+Plus, but I just saw in the fine print it specifically excludes CCB...
BMW will not cover CCB's. There's no way to get them to cover it.

But as I said in my other post, they will last longer than the car, most likely anyway.
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