[Rips335iCoupe]

Originally Posted by enlightenment

Sorry, but i don't agree with a word you are saying. I'm going to call Null Hypothesis on you. Any evidence to back up those claims? Your comments come off to me as complete nonsense and sound more like an attempt to make yourself feel better for not getting a manual. Have you owned any manual transmission cars? I had an auto 335i loaner yesterday while my M Coupe was getting serviced. Yes the 335 is very quick and the shifts are very good, however the car didn't feel right. I had a manual E90 330 prior to the M; that chassis feels completely different when mated to a proper manual. Maybe there is some merit to your post. I'll wait for you to furnish some hard evidence before i write you off.

Those aren't my words ... that is an article I found. Of course I have had manuals, and an Audi with DSG. Since having my DSG, I've told myself I would never get a manual tranny again. I was hesitant to get the 335i auto, and was going to wait for another car coming out with a dual synchronized gearbox, but when I drove the auto I was very impressed. Maybe you need to go back and read the articles about the automatic before you start doubting the statements made here. I hate to burst your bubble, but the wave of the future is not with a manual transmission, it’s a DSG transmission. So have fun with your stick while it lasts.

Here are the articles:

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...automatic.html

http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/199.cfm

[BMdblU]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

Wow..........So wrongly said:

A. Street racing is stupid no matter how you justify it.
B. Straight line racing a matter of skill? Good god get out to a road course.

The reality of straight line racing is you are still only shifting up consecutively. It's not rocket science. A road course is a much better test of one's skill opposed to the rapid shifting you would go through between stop lights.

And I'm the one who's the non-enthusiest for owning an auto XI.

You kinda misunderstood what I was trying to say.

Do you want to drive your car, or do you want it to drive you? better?

Are you trying to say driving the manual hard in a straight is as easy as mashing the pedal on an auto on a straight? I have been to the track(not in this car), and driving and auto on the track is far easier then driving a standard car. You have half the things to worry about with the auto.

Regarding the slushy.. the first 335i I drove was auto, I was impressed with it to say the least. Plenty fast, and you still get the same great car. But when it comes down to driver involvement, nothing beats the MT. And to everyone who says the shifter is 'mushy' or the throws are too long, just hasn't driven one with enough miles on it for it to be fully broken in. The long throws are easily fixed with the shorter knob. The stock one feels like crap and looks it too.

[achien]

Somebody please close this thread...

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by BMdblU

You kinda misunderstood what I was trying to say.

Do you want to drive your car, or do you want it to drive you? better?

Are you trying to say driving the manual hard in a straight is as easy as mashing the pedal on an auto on a straight? I have been to the track(not in this car), and driving and auto on the track is far easier then driving a standard car. You have half the things to worry about with the auto.

Regarding the slushy.. the first 335i I drove was auto, I was impressed with it to say the least. Plenty fast, and you still get the same great car. But when it comes down to driver involvement, nothing beats the MT. And to everyone who says the shifter is 'mushy' or the throws are too long, just hasn't driven one with enough miles on it for it to be fully broken in. The long throws are easily fixed with the shorter knob. The stock one feels like crap and looks it too.

My comment had more to do with the statement that straight line racing really involves all that much with regards to shifting. Rowing through the gears sequentially is not that difficult. What you are refining is the speed through the shift which is a "one-way" skill. Don't get me wrong, my hats off to that skill which very few peoply can do really well. Road course driving requires much more input into the transmission as you are constantly up and down shifting. So my point is - if you are only interested in straight line performance, then an auto is the way to go. I went for the auto simply because the MT did not impress me at all. If the manual had a more firm feel regardless of the long throw, I would have gone that route. The manual (at least the one I tried) was no where near the manual in my STI.

As always it is driver preference. For me the AT felt like a better transmission for this particular car. For my C4 I would only want a manual.

[OverDrive]

6mt All The Way Baby!!!

[Kbueno]

Torque Converters suck!
Please close thread.

[TurboFan]

I enjoy working the clutch, matching the revs, executing the perfect shift...if a DSG were available I might consider, but the AT shifts too slowly for me.

With the MT I can see what is happening around me, ahead, etc, and have the perfect gear quickly selected. The current AT didn't shift quickly enough to satisfy me.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by TurboFan

I enjoy working the clutch, matching the revs, executing the perfect shift...if a DSG were available I might consider, but the AT shifts too slowly for me.

With the MT I can see what is happening around me, ahead, etc, and have the perfect gear quickly selected. The current AT didn't shift quickly enough to satisfy me.

So you can shift faster than the ZF AT huh? That would be pretty remarkable. I agree with you on the feeling of executing the perfect rev match shift. I just don't believe that many people can actually shift in the 3 milleseconds the ZF can.

[scollins]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Why the ? As per BMW, the Step is rated to be able to handle more torque than the mt. Pretty simple concept.

Where has BMW ever made such a claim? I'd like a source, not "I heard it from my SA" or some other forum. I'm betting you won't be able to cite a source, because one does not exist.

ZF, who makes both transmissions in the 335i, indicated the Step (6HP19TU or renamed the 6HP21) is rated for 332 ft-lbs (450 NM.) They don't indicate what the 6MT is rated for, but since it is the same exact transmission in the M5 6MT, we can safely assume it is rated for at least 384 ft-lbs (520 NM.) If we assume a 10% safety margin, then the 6MT is likely rated for 575 NM (424 ft-lbs.) The N54 produces 410 NM in a transmission rated at 450 NM (Step), which is how I decided on a 10% safety margin.

The same 6MT in the 335i is used in the M5 and the 550i (ZF type G), but the 550i gets a beefier automatic than the 335i. So while the 6MT can handle everything from the 335i's straight six to the 550i's V8 to the M5's V10, the Step isn't strong enough for the 550i's V8. So really, why would you think the Step is going to have a higher input torque rating than the 6MT? It is not a logical conclusion.


This has been discussed many times before:
e.n335 called ZF and they said 350 ft-lbs maxs on step

Thread with a good chart.

[Bulldog 6]

I think it depends on what you are used too. I grew up driving manuals, now I feel like I am not as safe of a driver when in cars with AT. Using paddles for me is worse because of the diferent motions and no clutch.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by scollins

Where has BMW ever made such a claim? I'd like a source, not "I heard it from my SA" or some other forum. I'm betting you won't be able to cite a source, because one does not exist.

ZF, who makes both transmissions in the 335i, indicated the Step (6HP19TU or renamed the 6HP21) is rated for 332 ft-lbs (450 NM.) They don't indicate what the 6MT is rated for, but since it is the same exact transmission in the M5 6MT, we can safely assume it is rated for at least 384 ft-lbs (520 NM.) If we assume a 10% safety margin, then the 6MT is likely rated for 575 NM (424 ft-lbs.) The N54 produces 410 NM in a transmission rated at 450 NM (Step), which is how I decided on a 10% safety margin.

The same 6MT in the 335i is used in the M5 and the 550i (ZF type G), but the 550i gets a beefier automatic than the 335i. So while the 6MT can handle everything from the 335i's straight six to the 550i's V8 to the M5's V10, the Step isn't strong enough for the 550i's V8. So really, why would you think the Step is going to have a higher input torque rating than the 6MT? It is not a logical conclusion.


This has been discussed many times before:
e.n335 called ZF and they said 350 ft-lbs maxs on step

Thread with a good chart.

Isn't the zf AT also in the 335d? That would settle it right there.

[turboawdfanatic]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

Isn't the zf AT also in the 335d? That would settle it right there.

they do use a zf AT in the 335d....but search around and you'll find that it is not the same exact tranny...the 335d uses a beefier tranny to handle the higher torque.

I too was contemplating the mt vs at. But in the end I decided to get the MT. I had an automatic wrx once as a compromise so my wife can drive it. HUGE mistake that i had regret every day until i got a MT wrx....and swore to myself never to get a sporty car in auto again. Granted The ZF tranny is not even in the same league as the subaru 4eat. The ZF is pretty damn nice....but it still runs a torque converter...and no matter what way you slice it you lose a bit of control. As an enthusiast that autocrosses and tracks once a season....it wasn't acceptable. If it were a smg or dsg of the sort then I would have had an much harder time deciding...and might have gone with that. I could not imagine regretting a 50k auto after regretting a 22k auto....one thing I know for sure, is that I will not regret the MT....my wife maybe...but not me

[TurboFan]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

So you can shift faster than the ZF AT huh? That would be pretty remarkable. I agree with you on the feeling of executing the perfect rev match shift. I just don't believe that many people can actually shift in the 3 milleseconds the ZF can.

From the moment I press the shift lever until the next gear in engaged? 3ms my ass. 3 seconds maybe. That's what I didn't like about the AT. Too much lag from input to execution.

[Stronie]

6MT.

The Auto has come a long way but just not for me.

Plus makes sure the wife doesn't drive it.

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by TurboFan

From the moment I press the shift lever until the next gear in engaged? 3ms my ass. 3 seconds maybe. That's what I didn't like about the AT. Too much lag from input to execution.

3millisec. Yeah that is a load of crap. F1 transmissions don't even shift that fast.

[335er]

Originally Posted by SCCAForums.com

This is a BMW forum... get the Automatic... unless you want to look like a fool 'yanking' on that shifter with the family in the car! LOL

Seriously? A fool for driving a BMW with a manual transmission? What the...?

Look, to the original poster, go with your gut. Obviously, many of us here have strong opinions. I'm a huge fan of driving a manual transmission. I'm no race car driver, nor do I pretend to be. But, if you're buying a BMW because you like cars, enjoy driving, and want something that is a great balance of sporting driving and luxury, get the manual transmission. You'll feel like you're really driving. I'm not even going to raise the power, drag racing, track racing, mileage, or other arguments that people make - for the sake of argument, I'll concede all of those points. But if you're buying a BMW because you'll enjoy driving it, rather than having a car you can show off to your friends or girls or both, get the manual transmission. You won't regret it.

[BMdblU]

^^ There it is.

Originally Posted by Nikolas

My comment had more to do with the statement that straight line racing really involves all that much with regards to shifting. Rowing through the gears sequentially is not that difficult. What you are refining is the speed through the shift which is a "one-way" skill. Don't get me wrong, my hats off to that skill which very few peoply can do really well. Road course driving requires much more input into the transmission as you are constantly up and down shifting. So my point is - if you are only interested in straight line performance, then an auto is the way to go. I went for the auto simply because the MT did not impress me at all. If the manual had a more firm feel regardless of the long throw, I would have gone that route. The manual (at least the one I tried) was no where near the manual in my STI.

As always it is driver preference. For me the AT felt like a better transmission for this particular car. For my C4 I would only want a manual.

Point well taken.

[OverDrive]

If you AT guys just get AT just for the faster shifting sake, instead of paying the 1k for AT with paddles, just get manual and get the short shifters that BMW offers for the 335's and enjoy the car. I'm not sure about their price, but even if they do cost more than 1k, I'd take that any day over the awesome AT for N54.

[Calgary Agent]

Originally Posted by turboawdfanatic

I too was contemplating the mt vs at. But in the end I decided to get the MT. I had an automatic wrx once as a compromise so my wife can drive it. HUGE mistake that i had regret every day until i got a MT wrx....and swore to myself never to get a sporty car in auto again.

Perhaps so your wife can't drive your sporty cars ? *J/K*

This is a stupid discussion .... who really cares what you get. Personally, I chose the stick as that's what I prefer and learned to drive on 35 years ago. Shifting is completely natural and takes no thought. If I were driving a taxi cab in an urban area, I'd choose a vehicle with an AT. But for sportier cars and motorbikes, I prefer the MT *and yes .... there are motorbikes with AT's .... Honda had a 750 and I believe a 900 with AT's *

[dimmmi]

Well I have had the chance to testdrive the 6MT twice and I wasn't impressed. Being used to my s2000 tranny, the 6MT throws were so damn long I could see why the 6AT could shift faster. It was nicely gated though!

[dimmmi]

I should welcome myself! Mother just got a 335xi ordered 2 days ago and we are in for the 3 month wait! I hope this car is as impressive as the test drive and all the reviews make me believe.

[OverDrive]

Originally Posted by dimmmi

I should welcome myself! Mother just got a 335xi ordered 2 days ago and we are in for the 3 month wait! I hope this car is as impressive as the test drive and all the reviews make me believe.

Trust me, this car will blow ur mind. I know this and mine hasn't even gotten here yet!! I just know this by test driving one for like 20 mins.