[Black Flagged]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

A step back to a lighter car with a useable truck. Love the cloth-top cars, so simple yet effective.

+1

[KELVIN7]

Already? Damn, i just bought my car. :

[ynguldyn]

This is basically the repeat of the E61 story: don't market, don't offer the ability to customize, don't make any kind of effort whatsoever, then use the statistics you helped create to kill the model.

On the other hand, that should really help my future F31 keep its value.

[BimmerMat135]

Is there such a huge profit margin difference between an X3 and a 3er Touring? Seem like money talk in that specific case.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Is there such a huge profit margin difference between an X3 and a 3er Touring? Seem like money talk in that specific case.

At the very least, labor costs in Spartanburg should be very different from those in Munich.

[FilipMPower]

My three real concerns with the 3 series are:

1) Steering. Terrible in comparison to the older racks. It feels fake and way too light, has BMW fired their team which is responsible for the rack? I know people will say that it is because its electrically asissted. No. You can make very good electric steering, if you research it enough. The M3/4 have a decent, precise rack with a little feedback, especially during exit where one would expect the electric steering to take over the rack and turn the wheel straight. The 911 GT3, now that is what an electric rack should be like. BMW must hire proper engineers again. Preferably from porsche.

2) Interior. Self-explanatory.

3) Exterior design. The design is somewhat weird. The proportions are off, the headlights are pulled waay too low, the rear lights look terrible and the bumper looks boring and cheap, even in M-Sport. The car isnt ugly like the lexuses. But its definitely not a well designed car, it isnt appealing, like the XE for example.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by FilipMPower

My three real concerns with the 3 series are:

1) Steering. Terrible in comparison to the older racks. It feels fake and way too light, has BMW fired their team which is responsible for the rack? I know people will say that it is because its electrically asissted. No. You can make very good electric steering, if you research it enough. The M3/4 have a decent, precise rack with a little feedback, especially during exit where one would expect the electric steering to take over the rack and turn the wheel straight. The 911 GT3, now that is what an electric rack should be like. BMW must hire proper engineers again. Preferably from porsche.

You need to look at the overall worldwide 3 Series market.
The light steering is actually widely praised outside the "sporty enthusiasts".
The average 3 Series driver worldwide is actually quite old and more looking for luxury than sportyness.

The M3 is more focused so got a more sporty rack.


That said, it would be nice to be able to select either profile via Idrive to suit both types of drivers.

[raysspl]

That's a pretty good render!

[cooticooti16]

I'm just glad it's not front wheel drive.

The rest seems relatively progressive in a non evolutionary/revolutionary way.

Oh and maybe the M3 will have AWD to cope with its ~500 BHP.

R.

[cooticooti16]

Originally Posted by FilipMPower

My three real concerns with the 3 series are:

1) Steering. Terrible in comparison to the older racks. It feels fake and way too light, has BMW fired their team which is responsible for the rack? I know people will say that it is because its electrically asissted. No. You can make very good electric steering, if you research it enough. The M3/4 have a decent, precise rack with a little feedback, especially during exit where one would expect the electric steering to take over the rack and turn the wheel straight. The 911 GT3, now that is what an electric rack should be like. BMW must hire proper engineers again. Preferably from porsche.

2) Interior. Self-explanatory.

3) Exterior design. The design is somewhat weird. The proportions are off, the headlights are pulled waay too low, the rear lights look terrible and the bumper looks boring and cheap, even in M-Sport. The car isnt ugly like the lexuses. But its definitely not a well designed car, it isnt appealing, like the XE for example.

Oh and for comparison...

The S2000 has EPS and is damn near perfect.
The RX-8 R3 has EPS and is amazing.
The first gen Z4 has EPS and was relatively communicative.
The Cayman now has EPS and is fantastic.

I agree with you and BMW has no reason to make steering systems that suck so much.

On that note, bring back static suspensions like on the E39 which was, IMO, the greatest ride/handling balance of all time.

R.

[Pyrat 2]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

"Modulate camber on the fly".

Sounds like complexity. Hate to sound like a retrogrouch but i hope the "old school" non adjustable dampers with aggressive tuning will still be part of the non m lineup

Fully agree. All of the active suspension componentry will keep me away. I've owned 4 3 series and 1 1 series and I'm starting to wonder whether my run with BMW is nearing an end. I'm optimistic on the M2 but if they end up with limited production like on the 1M I'll likely move elsewhere.

[P-Bass]

Originally Posted by sbw

BMW is losing its way.

For the past few years I've been in denial about this.

The F30 is not a great car, worse than the previous-gen E90.

I owned both.

The steering is worse. The adaptive M suspension, even in sport mode, is worse (floaty and pitchy) than the previous-gen's static sport suspension.

There's a reason why the 3's losing comparison tests and Car And Driver's dropped it from its 10Best.

Also owned a current-gen 535i, which is a wallowy boat with overboosted, way-too-sensitive steering.

I hope BMW finds its way again.

In a month I'm leaving the brand, after nine years and the three aforementioned Bimmers.

I'm leaving for Porsche, which still caters to the driving enthusiast.

My Porsche has been built and is currently making its way home somewhere on the Atlantic.

Couldn't have said it better, same BMW experience. Dinan shockware & springs have helped immensely, still not what I want nor expect from BMW. I am holding out hope there will be an option for a more focused 340, if not, I'll be right behind you when my lease is up, at my Porsche dealer. The last bastions of drivers cars.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by RK3er

Aren't they typically heavier? Did I miss the sarcasm?

A step back for the better.

Also a functional trunk is a must.

[ChrisMT79]

I would think it is obvious, time wise we are too far away to have any certainties. So what better than throw some speculative info out there, see what rumblings come of it, and adjust accordingly.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by Rated ///M Power

The article says that the next generation 3 is going to be softer, yet sportier.

Isn't that kind of a contradiction?

Agree i dont like the sound of it, current gen is already too soft and boring. Did the grandmas complain about back problems? I guess we will have to buy a 4 series for a sporty car from now on

[ynotony]

Originally Posted by cooticooti16

Oh and for comparison...

The S2000 has EPS and is damn near perfect.
The RX-8 R3 has EPS and is amazing.
The first gen Z4 has EPS and was relatively communicative.
The Cayman now has EPS and is fantastic.

I agree with you and BMW has no reason to make steering systems that suck so much.

On that note, bring back static suspensions like on the E39 which was, IMO, the greatest ride/handling balance of all time.

R.

Also the BRZ.

But those cars are all much lighter than the 3 series, meaning EPS system is much less involved.

I'm guessing that is why those EPS systems feel a lot better?

[aajami]

Originally Posted by sbw

BMW is losing its way.

For the past few years I've been in denial about this.

The F30 is not a great car, worse than the previous-gen E90.

I owned both.

The steering is worse. The adaptive M suspension, even in sport mode, is worse (floaty and pitchy) than the previous-gen's static sport suspension.

There's a reason why the 3's losing comparison tests and Car And Driver's dropped it from its 10Best.

Also owned a current-gen 535i, which is a wallowy boat with overboosted, way-too-sensitive steering.

I hope BMW finds its way again.

In a month I'm leaving the brand, after nine years and the three aforementioned Bimmers.

I'm leaving for Porsche, which still caters to the driving enthusiast.

My Porsche has been built and is currently making its way home somewhere on the Atlantic.

What model did you get?

[aajami]

Originally Posted by cooticooti16

Oh and for comparison...

The S2000 has EPS and is damn near perfect.


R.

Ehhhhhhhh. My previous car was an S2000, and I sold it to a friend who still owns it, so I get to drive it monthly.

The turn in on the S2000 was incredible, but the steering feel was non-existent, man.

[inFamousKicks]

Stopped reading at "softer ride," and "longer wheelbase."

[ynotony]

Originally Posted by aajami

What model did you get?

I came to the same conclusion as SBW and picked up a 997S. After test driving it became immediately obvious to me. Porsche makes a very simple car focused on one thing above all else: the driving experience.

Thankfully Porsche is fine with selling less than 10k 911s per year - it allows them to be uncompromising. BMW on the other hand needs the 3 series (and even M3) to appeal to as broad a demographic as possible.

All this means I do have high hopes for the M2, because I think BMW won't have the mass market pressure like they do with the 3/M3. It can be sharp, harsh, and loud.

[jaximointhecut]

surprise surprise

[chief]

"A longer wheelbase, wider track..." equals Bigger. Why?

You're going the wrong way!