01-11-2021, 10:21 PM | #45 | |
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Beyond that: I've had 3 F10 M5s, 2 M6 GCs, 2 F90s and now an M8. All were comps. In between, I had an AMG E63S and an RS7P. The ZF isn't quite as quick as the BMW dual clutch in all scenarios but it's too close to call in most. For the rest of the time, it's butter—I don't think anyone ever described the BMW DCT as butter... except perhaps when it came to the clutch plates slipping. You haven't had enough time with it is my guess but to each their own. |
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01-12-2021, 12:56 AM | #46 | |
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01-12-2021, 01:42 PM | #47 |
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There was a lot of discussion on the delay when the car was first released. It is noticeable on your first few drives, then your brain adapts and you get used to it.
When I had my M5 I never really thought about it until that discussion came up. Then when I really paid attention I could feel that it was there. Then I forgot about it and just enjoyed driving it. |
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01-12-2021, 04:33 PM | #48 |
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Ok, so I made sure to pay attention to this today when I drove. I tried all three “levels” of S, and there IS a very noticeable delay between upshift/downshift and gear change. My car is still in break-in, so I am not too worried about this for now, as I have (unfortunately) only rarely driven the car, yet. This will be something I remain interested in as I pass break-in and beyond, but it will definitely not be a deal-killer for me, as I absolutely love this car! It does seem as though this could be a pre-break-in thing, though, or as some have mentioned, the learning thing.
Last edited by ///WeissBisBlau; 01-12-2021 at 04:56 PM.. |
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01-12-2021, 08:01 PM | #49 | |
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Notice how the transmission adapts to the more aggressive driving inputs both in the first and second video but specifically how the shift speed and apparent paddle response improve simply because I'm now really on it (gas-pedal-wise). |
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01-13-2021, 03:57 AM | #50 | |
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01-13-2021, 11:07 AM | #51 |
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Very fast going to higher gears,but slower going to lower gears.
Car is awesome but the dct is mechanically different--dual clutches so there are some differences. |
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01-14-2021, 04:57 AM | #53 |
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You really need a new dead horse to beat, especially since you've evidenced you don't fully get the ups/downs of the torque converter in other threads by alleging stuff like it eliminating engine breaking despite being locked.
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01-14-2021, 04:01 PM | #54 |
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There is no engine braking in the F90. When there is, I honestly feel it's applying the brakes sometimes, it feels so random and unnatural. Sometimes there's no engine braking whatsoever, the car just goes like it's in neutral and other times it literally stops the car - both scenarions happen on a pretty steep downhill on 2nd or 3rd gear (same road on both conditions), which honestly isn't possible. For me personally it's the ZF that ruins the entire experience in the M5 and it's the sole reason I don't drive the M5 anymore.
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01-14-2021, 05:24 PM | #55 |
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Wait a minute, what? "No engine braking whatsoever"? I'm driving this car every day and it engine brakes like a boss on command every single time. When driving in sport plus settings, a simple, fast and fairly subtle stab on the brakes triggers downshift to lowest available gear and the car engine brakes beautifully- cracks and burbles galore.
I think part of the issue is people who are used to manual or dct and either haven't figured out how to get the most out of the zf yet, or just unwilling to learn. To state that the zf ruins the car is a bit much. BMW engineers know what they're doing. |
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01-14-2021, 05:39 PM | #56 |
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FWIW, I did not buy the M5 for Manual Shifter Paddles, but instead for the overall utility and performance envelopes and it is an awesome, precision tool. On my last three cars I never use the manual shift paddles! I would probably have something like a Porsche GT3 if I was looking for a more visceral, sports car experience.
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01-14-2021, 11:44 PM | #57 | |
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Tried a 540xi and yes the gbox was not adapted to my style but it was all wrong for me. Seemed to be always in too high a gear in normal mode and having to stab the throttle or use paddle to shift down while holding low gear too much in sport. One reason I'm swapping to an auto is so I don't have to manually shift all the time. The engine and ride was very creamy though but much more exec than sporty. As soon as I drove the M5, I knew this was the kind of engine/gbox that I was looking for, enough power and torque to just let the gbox do its thing in everyday driving with the density of traffic nowdays. If I want a burst of acceleration, just flick into M1/M2 |
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01-15-2021, 02:40 AM | #58 | |
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01-15-2021, 05:52 AM | #59 |
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yes to each his or her own. My wife's M550i has shift paddles and I have never use them as I think I might break something. I also never thought I needed to use them. I am not out racing the car, but again to each his or her own and the automatic transmission performs like I think it should. I am probably much easier to please on this topic. Like I said before, if the car is not what you want get something else and enjoy it. Life is too short to force yourself into something that does not satisfy you especially at this price point. If Porsche, Mercedes, Cadillac, Ford, Audi are better for you get one of those and move on.
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01-15-2021, 06:13 AM | #60 | |
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01-15-2021, 08:20 AM | #61 | |
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01-15-2021, 09:00 AM | #62 | ||
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22 M4 Competition xdrive
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01-15-2021, 09:41 AM | #63 |
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Did you make sure to adjust the drive logic setting? With my F80 M3, I was able to control how quickly the paddles shift up or down.
Last edited by bforbrian; 01-15-2021 at 10:04 AM.. |
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01-16-2021, 01:12 PM | #64 | |
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About the only scenario where engine braking is a little wonky is very slow speed downhills when you approach stall speed with the engine cold. If you get down near roughly 1300rpm in 1st gear riding against the engine the torque converter will unlock and will feel like neutral... but a DCT would be clutching to avoid stall speed anyway. I’m not even particularly pro-ZF. I’m one of the weirdos who would’ve still gone 3-pedal manual on an f90 if it were offered with AWD. Further, I think a DCT would be good for this car, it would make it more special/unique from the M550 and make it stand out against competitors too. I just don’t see making that argument by acting like the ZF eliminates engine braking when it absolutely does no such thing. It is slower to shift and less special than DCT. It’s also less engaging. It trades that for smoothness, cost, and AWD compatibility. It is absolutely not a total slush box or without engine braking. |
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01-18-2021, 04:15 PM | #65 |
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I drove my car recently with this topic in mind. limeypride is right. In S3 if you are just cruising with minimal throttle, the gear change is noticeably slower and more "delayed" vs. on throttle gear shifts. But even the slow shifts feel very natural and appropriate when you are just cruising along. Gear changes under higher load are fast and crisp. All in all a great gearbox.
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