[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by hwelvaar

I guess you'll need to be looking at different brands nowadays, for a true driver car.
Like Lotus for example.

+1.5 metric tons of car for BMW, half a ton less for Lotus...

I will just cross my fingers that bmw keeps the m3 rwd

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

So you think what makes an M car is the engine?

I'd say that's true of older AMG cars, but it has never been true of M cars.

High revving, maximum power output near the redline. Ring a bell?

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Surely you may have some inside information on why M is doing what they are doing these days.

The current head of the M department is from Audi RS, the dept that ditched S tronic for RS5 because the "torque is too much".

Someone might need to go back to frAudi soon..

[Kh4N]

Originally Posted by mundo74

pushing the boundaries of the s63 engine and the zf8at slushbox

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

So you think what makes an M car is the engine?

I'd say that's true of older AMG cars, but it has never been true of M cars.

Absolutely. The engine is central theme to most sports car and I believe the same for any ///M car.

For ///M cars in particular the two main things that make it stand apart are its engine and its chassis. Of course its about the complete package and design too, but the most important things are those two.

I do realize that for some people the car is what ever the manufacturer wants it to be and they just accept that.

But Porsche is good example here. They constantly use the flat 6 boxer engine, but with every new generation or LCi they make significant changes to the engine and make it almost like a completely different engine even though, they're all the same setup. The new .2 GT3 is a perfect example of this, it's a far different engine than the .1 GT3 engine.

M division could have at the very least raised the redline of the S63xx engine for the F90 M5 to 8,000rpm to make it different than the F10 M5 engine, but no, instead they just added a new water pump, a couple of slightly different turbos, and minor changes that don't significantly make it all that different.

[somer]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

High revving, maximum power output near the redline. Ring a bell?

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Absolutely. The engine is central theme to most sports car and I believe the same for any ///M car.

For ///M cars in particular the two main things that make it stand apart are its engine and its chassis. Of course its about the complete package and design too, but the most important things are those two.

I do realize that for some people the car is what ever the manufacturer wants it to be and they just accept that.

But Porsche is good example here. They constantly use the flat 6 boxer engine, but with every new generation or LCi they make significant changes to the engine and make it almost like a completely different engine even though, they're all the same setup. The new .2 GT3 is a perfect example of this, it's a far different engine than the .1 GT3 engine.

M division could have at the very least raised the redline of the S63xx engine for the F90 M5 to 8,000rpm to make it different than the F10 M5 engine, but no, instead they just added a new water pump, a couple of slightly different turbos, and minor changes that don't significantly make it all that different.

Don't expect 7200rpm redline or higher this time either. ZF max engine speed is rated at 7000, plus the S63B44T2 (X5M/X6M) has only a 6800rpm redline. Though I do expect the new M5 to be right at 7000.

Oddly enough AutotopNL posted a tuned M5 acceleration video today and I noticed this one has the +200rpm raised redline, you can see a couple times him shifting right around 7400. Best example is ~1:55.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Absolutely. The engine is central theme to most sports car and I believe the same for any ///M car.

For ///M cars in particular the two main things that make it stand apart are its engine and its chassis. Of course its about the complete package and design too, but the most important things are those two.

I do realize that for some people the car is what ever the manufacturer wants it to be and they just accept that.

But Porsche is good example here. They constantly use the flat 6 boxer engine, but with every new generation or LCi they make significant changes to the engine and make it almost like a completely different engine even though, they're all the same setup. The new .2 GT3 is a perfect example of this, it's a far different engine than the .1 GT3 engine.

M division could have at the very least raised the redline of the S63xx engine for the F90 M5 to 8,000rpm to make it different than the F10 M5 engine, but no, instead they just added a new water pump, a couple of slightly different turbos, and minor changes that don't significantly make it all that different.

I like your ideas on what they could have done with the engine.

But I think you underestimate how game changing the chassis improvements can be.

If this car has 4 wheel steering and all wheel drive it will drive like an M3 with the power of an M5 and be able to get all that power down. That will be pretty amazing.

[Kr0m3assass1n]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I like your ideas on what they could have done with the engine.

But I think you underestimate how game changing the chassis improvements can be.

If this car has 4 wheel steering and all wheel drive it will drive like an M3 with the power of an M5 and be able to get all that power down. That will be pretty amazing.

Very true, but it would still look like crap.

I hope the F90 LCI looks more like the F10. Lol.

[somer]

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I like your ideas on what they could have done with the engine.

But I think you underestimate how game changing the chassis improvements can be.

If this car has 4 wheel steering and all wheel drive it will drive like an M3 with the power of an M5 and be able to get all that power down. That will be pretty amazing.

No doubt brother, the acceleration is going to be incredible in the F90 M5.

[raisingAnarchy]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Absolutely. The engine is central theme to most sports car and I believe the same for any ///M car.

For ///M cars in particular the two main things that make it stand apart are its engine and its chassis. Of course its about the complete package and design too, but the most important things are those two.

I do realize that for some people the car is what ever the manufacturer wants it to be and they just accept that.

But Porsche is good example here. They constantly use the flat 6 boxer engine, but with every new generation or LCi they make significant changes to the engine and make it almost like a completely different engine even though, they're all the same setup. The new .2 GT3 is a perfect example of this, it's a far different engine than the .1 GT3 engine.

M division could have at the very least raised the redline of the S63xx engine for the F90 M5 to 8,000rpm to make it different than the F10 M5 engine, but no, instead they just added a new water pump, a couple of slightly different turbos, and minor changes that don't significantly make it all that different.

Doesn't turbocharging, by nature, make it more difficult to have a high rev limit? As much as I'd love to see 8k rpm in a M motor again, I think it'd be difficult to do at this price point along with turbocharging.

[Eau_Rouge111]

Hope BMW grows a pair and makes an M5 wagon...nothing more bad ass than a completely un-needed M5 wagon

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by ///M_ADDICT

Mclaren 650 is TT and revs to 8500. I think its a flat crank plane V8.

Indeed. The original McLaren 12C also revved to 8,500rpm. Turbo engines can have redlines as high as NA engines no problem. The challenge is tuning the software and the turbos. The turbos usually will only produce useable power and torque in certain ranges, but with good tuning almost anything is possible. Also the block and internals have to be built to handle those rpms. The major problem with the S63xx is that all of the internals are cast, but even so the the M550i and the F90 M5 have the same exact internals yet the M division tuned to the M5 to rev higher. The M5 has more powerful turbos though and can use the rpms better too. Higher revving engines are more easily achieved with smaller displacement engines and engines with a shorter stroke or a flat plane crank can rev a lot higher. My idea for a new M5 engine is theoretically for me totally implementable if BMW had the will to design it. I wanted M Division to develop an all new 3.0L V10 Twin Turbo engine that can rev to at least 8,000rpm. It probably wouldn't have as much torque but if they instead would have concentrated more on chassis weight reduction then it wouldn't have mattered if torque was below 500lbs/ft. Then at least we could have had an engine that could easily produce 600-700hp revs high, better on fuel consumption because smaller displacement, and sounded unique and glorious when revved. Weight of the car would had to have come down to less than 4,100lbs though.

[teemolovesm4]

Wish it's gona keep its value better than M3/M4s. Sigh!

[N & M]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Fernando Alonso said this in press conference a year ago. He seems to reflect a lot of us car lovers opinions over the last decade's car industry evolution.

"My contract with Mclaren Honda ends next year (2017).. that's when I'll decide whether I'll continue to race in F1 or not. With this turbo engine (V6) I feel that F1 cars are now different to drive, I don't say it is better or worse, but I was lucky enough to drive cars from 2003, 2004, up until 2009..the cars were more extreme, more F1.... It's against racer's instincts to try to save fuel and tyres from the race start. And if these cars continue to give me the feeling I've had for the last couple of years, then maybe I'll stop racing in F1.... If you are just arriving in F1, the cars are fast and fun to drive, but for me who has driven all the cars, they are not enjoyable anymore. Not for me."

I feel like there should be a fine distinction between mainstream cars that should be eco friendly (520d) and for cars that are designed to go to race tracks (M), considering that sales figure on the latter is considerably less by nature, so they should focus more on character and extremity than this "practicality" that BMW now advertises. It's not a joke that AMGs are actually faster around race tracks nowadays.

You are missing the point. There will be a point where the benefits requirements will converge. It will never be a the nostalgic stuff we will miss but it is a necessary reality for the greater good. The P1 and the 918 showed glimpses of bringing a touch of eco into hyper cars and the NSX shows there could be fun and speed potential. Non are perfect on one extreme or other but it is still early days and it is the future of things. Change is inevitable.

By way, barring E63 and the AMG GT no AMG beat their M counterparts and I am confident the F90 will address the E63.

[Ghostriderf80]

Is it me or does the back end look thinner than the front like the Peugeot 305???

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by raysspl

Excited

#beastmode

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by stvding

Floating or fixed rear caliper???? Why can't BMW/Audi/Mercedes use dual calipers design like tesla/lambo/alfa, very small caliper for parking brake and fixed caliper for rear normal brake??? God dammit!

More than likely floating rear caliper, just like the last M5.

[stvding]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

More than likely floating rear caliper, just like the last M5.

I think it is the cost. Right now, only supercars have dual fixed callipers setup....

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by ///M_ADDICT

Mercedes and GTR fanboys are the worst. Im sorry but im stating facts that the M4/RS5 will shit on the Shit63 amg.

And BMW fanboys are not? Look at what you call the C63 AMG. You are no more better then the other fanboys.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by stvding

I think it is the cost. Right now, only supercars have dual fixed callipers setup....

Corvette has dual fixed calipers. Porsche 911. I believe the Camaro ZL1, 1LE, and Mustang GT350 have dual fixed calipers. And of course the M3/4, Giulia QV, ATS-V (and Lexus RC-F?) have them.

[stvding]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Corvette has dual fixed calipers. Porsche 911. I believe the Camaro ZL1, 1LE, and Mustang GT350 have dual fixed calipers. And of course the M3/4, Giulia QV, ATS-V (and Lexus RC-F?) have them.

Then tell me the reason why 5,6,7,x1/3/4/5/6 including M versions, everything in Mercedes and Audi(except R8) lineup, all have ugly floating sh1t...please