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      06-09-2021, 11:21 PM   #45
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I find it amusing how this discussion could be overlaid to the same discussions that happened on BMW boards when the e46 M3 CSL was released (was initially considered to be overpriced and pointless) and same with the M2 CS (which was thought to be just carbon bits on an M2C). History continues repeating itself over and over again with limited run BMWs.
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      06-09-2021, 11:38 PM   #46
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I've been reading Evo for over a decade, and respect their work. I can tell you Evo doesn't give 5 stars lightly - even most supercars/hypercars have 4-4.5 starts. If my memory serves me, the F90 CS is the first M5 to earn 5 stars since...well, since my favorite M5, the E39.

Coming on the heels of the M2 CS (and after the somewhat disappointing F8X CS), it does seem that there is a subset of M engineers who are pushing the envelope. And for that, I am glad. Not glad enough to trade my M2C for an M2CS for my boring daily commute (and the unrealistic hope that I will be able to find time to take epic drives soon) or consolidate my dream 3 car garage (which, while modest, I have) into the F90 CS...but still glad that the R&D is occurring and will likely flavor M cars in the future.
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      06-10-2021, 12:11 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by malrash View Post
I think you're comparing factory times with journo times. Factory time is likely to eclipse the competition. Again conjecture atm. Will see. Also I did not see Corsas being the tire for ring lap being mentioned. The car can potentially, though unlikely, be on the non corsa option.

I bought my CS as a daily driver since it's reportedly comfier than the standard car.....comfier yet sportier. Broader in capabilities (to what extent is unknown) yet similar in purpose at a slight numerical expense which I think is inconsequential (at least here in the US)
The 'ring times I was comparing (7:36 for M5 Comp, 7:29.57 for CS) were set by the exact same driver, Christian Gebhardt, as reported on fastestlaps.com (here is the link: https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife).

While I don't have a link supporting my statement that the CS was on Corsa tires, my understanding is that published 'ring times are for cars in stock form, including tires, unless otherwise specified. My understanding is that the CS comes with Corsa tires as stock.

In any case, while I am sure the CS is a fine car and has some level of exclusivity over and above a base or comp M5, I am not convinced that it is actually faster on track.

As for comparing the CS to the AMG and the Porsche, those were driven by factory drivers, but Christian Gebhardt is no slouch. Based on reports from fastestlaps.com, it appears he is consistently within 2 to 5 seconds of factory drivers with Porsche and AMG cars. 7 to 8 seconds is quite a bit to make up with just a different driver. We shall see when BMW's factory driver hits the 'ring. It is a bit odd that BMW has not yet published a 'ring time with its own driver.
The M5 CS can be optioned with Pilot 4s as well. And some press cars have come with those.

I expect the CS to beat the Porsche in the ring even without rear wheel steering. It's so much lighter. But eager to see the factory time!
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      06-10-2021, 01:13 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikemike View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNALUZU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikemike View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
In the US, it's a $10k USD upgrade on a regular M5. The question is more if it is worth it over an M3 I think.
It's $43,000 more in Canada for the CS, $165,000 vs $122,000, too rich pour moi
but I can understand spending that much, the CS machines have an intangible 'something' related
to performance that makes it worth it, somehow.
Is that base price to base price? Or is that the price of a loaded up M5?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNALUZU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikemike View Post
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Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
In the US, it's a $10k USD upgrade on a regular M5. The question is more if it is worth it over an M3 I think.
It's $43,000 more in Canada for the CS, $165,000 vs $122,000, too rich pour moi
but I can understand spending that much, the CS machines have an intangible 'something' related
to performance that makes it worth it, somehow.
Is that base price to base price? Or is that the price of a loaded up M5?
Base is $122 for the M5, $165 for base CS
Right, so, you need to add things like CCBs and all the carbon fiber bits and see what a loaded up M5 costs. Otherwise, it isn't that great of a comparison.
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      06-10-2021, 02:38 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
The 'ring times I was comparing (7:36 for M5 Comp, 7:29.57 for CS) were set by the exact same driver, Christian Gebhardt, as reported on fastestlaps.com (here is the link: https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife).

While I don't have a link supporting my statement that the CS was on Corsa tires, my understanding is that published 'ring times are for cars in stock form, including tires, unless otherwise specified. My understanding is that the CS comes with Corsa tires as stock.

In any case, while I am sure the CS is a fine car and has some level of exclusivity over and above a base or comp M5, I am not convinced that it is actually faster on track.

As for comparing the CS to the AMG and the Porsche, those were driven by factory drivers, but Christian Gebhardt is no slouch. Based on reports from fastestlaps.com, it appears he is consistently within 2 to 5 seconds of factory drivers with Porsche and AMG cars. 7 to 8 seconds is quite a bit to make up with just a different driver. We shall see when BMW's factory driver hits the 'ring. It is a bit odd that BMW has not yet published a 'ring time with its own driver.
Here is a link confirming that the CS was on Corsa tires for the ‘ring lap: https://www.motor1.com/news/511426/b...urgring-video/.
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      06-10-2021, 05:38 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
The 'ring times I was comparing (7:36 for M5 Comp, 7:29.57 for CS) were set by the exact same driver, Christian Gebhardt, as reported on fastestlaps.com (here is the link: https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife).

While I don't have a link supporting my statement that the CS was on Corsa tires, my understanding is that published 'ring times are for cars in stock form, including tires, unless otherwise specified. My understanding is that the CS comes with Corsa tires as stock.

In any case, while I am sure the CS is a fine car and has some level of exclusivity over and above a base or comp M5, I am not convinced that it is actually faster on track.

As for comparing the CS to the AMG and the Porsche, those were driven by factory drivers, but Christian Gebhardt is no slouch. Based on reports from fastestlaps.com, it appears he is consistently within 2 to 5 seconds of factory drivers with Porsche and AMG cars. 7 to 8 seconds is quite a bit to make up with just a different driver. We shall see when BMW's factory driver hits the 'ring. It is a bit odd that BMW has not yet published a 'ring time with its own driver.

I do believe the CS will be close or under the gt63 time of 7:25:xx when factory times post, only to be overtaken soon by the gt73. The project 8 has a completely different price point and purpose. Agree it’s unusual they haven’t so far, yet we see the Nürburgring outline on the headrest! Thanks for sharing the link to the Corsas.

I also don’t think most CS buyers are buying the car as their exclusive track cars so comparing track times is simply an academic exercise for most of us, myself included.

Last edited by malrash; 06-10-2021 at 05:50 AM..
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      06-10-2021, 05:58 AM   #51
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For those saying this is a reflection of how good the M5C is, I think they're forgetting how lukewarm journalists feel towards that car (in terms of subjective experience, not objective performance).

It really seems BMW has figured out how to bring back that special "something" with the CS models, where they are much more than the sum of their parts. I just wish BMW went back to when that's what all M cars were.
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      06-10-2021, 09:41 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNALUZU View Post
Right, so, you need to add things like CCBs and all the carbon fiber bits and see what a loaded up M5 costs. Otherwise, it isn't that great of a comparison.
It wouldn't be a loaded up M5C you'd want to use for comparison.


Correct me please, but I would spec the following to get a similar M5CS:

M5C...Sish
-Base M5 - $103500
-Brands Hatch Grey - $0
-Black full interior - $3500
-Competition Package - $7600
-M Carbon Ceramic Brakes - $8500
-M Driver's Package - $2500
-BMW M Performance Rear Diffuser - $1250
-BMW M Performance Rear Spoiler Pro - $827
-BMW M Performance Steering Wheel Pro - $1970

TOTAL M5C - $129,647


I would NOT INCLUDE:
-Executive Package (in the M5CS, you lose front ventilated seats, front and rear heated seats, front massaging seats, soft close doors, power rear sunshade)
-Driving Assistance Plus Package (lost is the Active Driving Assistant Pro, as well as Extended Traffic Jam Assistant for limited access highways)
-Bowers & Wilkins Diamond Surround Sound System


For anyone wanting to use this as a template to play around, you can copy/paste the build code <<EHW5VBYV>>
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      06-10-2021, 09:47 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by crypto View Post
I don't know. It seems a bit over the top to say it makes you want to have no other cars in your household. I think I really just want to see an honest review from someone who drives an M5C as their DD and has spent a month with M5 CS as their DD.
Those seats would kill long drives for most people, I tried them in the M3...............horrible after one hour.
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      06-10-2021, 10:14 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windtendo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNALUZU View Post
Right, so, you need to add things like CCBs and all the carbon fiber bits and see what a loaded up M5 costs. Otherwise, it isn't that great of a comparison.
It wouldn't be a loaded up M5C you'd want to use for comparison.


Correct me please, but I would spec the following to get a similar M5CS:

M5C...Sish
-Base M5 - $103500
-Brands Hatch Grey - $0
-Black full interior - $3500
-Competition Package - $7600
-M Carbon Ceramic Brakes - $8500
-M Driver's Package - $2500
-BMW M Performance Rear Diffuser - $1250
-BMW M Performance Rear Spoiler Pro - $827
-BMW M Performance Steering Wheel Pro - $1970

TOTAL M5C - $129,647


I would NOT INCLUDE:
-Executive Package (in the M5CS, you lose front ventilated seats, front and rear heated seats, front massaging seats, soft close doors, power rear sunshade)
-Driving Assistance Plus Package (lost is the Active Driving Assistant Pro, as well as Extended Traffic Jam Assistant for limited access highways)
-Bowers & Wilkins Diamond Surround Sound System


For anyone wanting to use this as a template to play around, you can copy/paste the build code <<EHW5VBYV>>
Probably need to add in the estimated cost of the CF bucket seats as well.
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      06-10-2021, 10:26 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windtendo View Post
It wouldn't be a loaded up M5C you'd want to use for comparison.


Correct me please, but I would spec the following to get a similar M5CS:

M5C...Sish
-Base M5 - $103500
-Brands Hatch Grey - $0
-Black full interior - $3500
-Competition Package - $7600
-M Carbon Ceramic Brakes - $8500
-M Driver's Package - $2500
-BMW M Performance Rear Diffuser - $1250
-BMW M Performance Rear Spoiler Pro - $827
-BMW M Performance Steering Wheel Pro - $1970

TOTAL M5C - $129,647


I would NOT INCLUDE:
-Executive Package (in the M5CS, you lose front ventilated seats, front and rear heated seats, front massaging seats, soft close doors, power rear sunshade)
-Driving Assistance Plus Package (lost is the Active Driving Assistant Pro, as well as Extended Traffic Jam Assistant for limited access highways)
-Bowers & Wilkins Diamond Surround Sound System


For anyone wanting to use this as a template to play around, you can copy/paste the build code <<EHW5VBYV>>
- Need to add $3800 for the carbon buckets (which is the m3/m4 option costs)
- M Drive professional - $900
- Carbon shift paddles (from IND) - $785
- Carbon Engine Cover - $1490
- M2 CS Carbon hood on IND is $9,090 painted (lets assume the cost is the same, even though m5 CS hood has more intricate detail)

now i'm at $141,912.
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      06-10-2021, 12:44 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Pete View Post
Do you track the M2 CS? For every day driving, I can't say the average driver will feel any measurable difference. Yes, I have a M2C and no, I do not hate on the M2CS. I can't justify the extra price when you can achieve equal or more performance with better suspension upgrades and tires available in the aftermarket. Resale value, straight out of the box/factory M2CS will be far greater than an upgraded M2C.

As far as M5 CS, seems like overkill for a big fat sedan. But it's an amazing car and I'm sure there's a market for it.
My big fat M5 obliterates M2's (regular and competition) at VIR lap after lap after lap. With nothing but tires and brake pads.

I'm sure my M5 CS which is on the way will be even better. While my own M2 is fun, it doesn't put the power down on the straightaways, and the M5 hauls more track gear to and from the track.

Shawn
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      06-10-2021, 01:29 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
- Need to add $3800 for the carbon buckets (which is the m3/m4 option costs)
- M Drive professional - $900
- Carbon shift paddles (from IND) - $785
- Carbon Engine Cover - $1490
- M2 CS Carbon hood on IND is $9,090 painted (lets assume the cost is the same, even though m5 CS hood has more intricate detail)

now i'm at $141,912.
If you're going to make it a near carbon-copy of an M5CS just get the CS. This was really just an exercise in spec'ing the car on the configurator as close to the M5CS as an M5C could get. None of those items you listed are on the configurator (besides the Carbon Engine Cover).
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      06-10-2021, 02:13 PM   #58
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
You are saying Joe Achillies is a more real life POV compared to a written review by Jethro Bovington? Jethro's been writing car reviews for 20 years now and Joe Achillies is a limo driver with a youtube channel. Its like comparing Jake Paul to a real boxer.
Not to mention Joe Achillies is a huge BMW fanboy and I've never seen him criticize a BMW so I always take his reviews with a huge grain of salt.
He reviewed a 530d Touring he wasn't too enamoured with. Criticised the ride as being far too harsh for that type of car.

Yes he's a BMW fan, but he's generally balanced and will praise other makes.
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      06-10-2021, 02:59 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by windtendo View Post
If you're going to make it a near carbon-copy of an M5CS just get the CS. This was really just an exercise in spec'ing the car on the configurator as close to the M5CS as an M5C could get. None of those items you listed are on the configurator (besides the Carbon Engine Cover).
I think the point that was trying to be made was that the difference in prices is not as drastic as it appears when you factor in all that is included with the M5CS.
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      06-10-2021, 08:27 PM   #60
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Am I the only one who doesn’t know who Jethro Bovingdon is?

Had to Google him.
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      06-10-2021, 09:27 PM   #61
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Am I the only one who doesn’t know who Jethro Bovingdon is?

Had to Google him.
Nope. I have no clue who he is either.
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      06-10-2021, 10:10 PM   #62
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Jethro is one of my favourite reviewers. His videos of the 458 Speciale and 675LT were at least partly responsible for my decision to buy them.
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      06-11-2021, 06:14 AM   #63
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you guys are over analyzing this. If you didn't buy one, cool. If you bought one, great. Sounds likea bunch of people bitching about the price tag. All these cars are overpriced, 5 years from now they'll barely be worth 50. Move on.
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      06-11-2021, 06:36 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNALUZU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakerStyle View Post
Am I the only one who doesn't know who Jethro Bovingdon is?

Had to Google him.
Nope. I have no clue who he is either.
He's been writing for Evo for 20 years (and has an editorial column there), hosts Top Gear America, started Drivers Republic with Chris Harris and Dick Meaden back in the day.

I guess we don't have a lot of Evo readers here as YouTube killed off the car magazine. I've been a subscriber for 20 years, It's really the best source of unbiased car opinions.
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      06-11-2021, 06:38 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicane_ View Post
Jethro is one of my favourite reviewers. His videos of the 458 Speciale and 675LT were at least partly responsible for my decision to buy them.
Yeah his 458 Speciale Evo video review is one of the best things to watch on the 458, cause he compares the regular and speciale.
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      06-11-2021, 06:58 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScullyD View Post
You are saying Joe Achillies is a more real life POV compared to a written review by Jethro Bovington? Jethro's been writing car reviews for 20 years now and Joe Achillies is a limo driver with a youtube channel. Its like comparing Jake Paul to a real boxer.
This is savage but hilarious and 100% on point. Joe, while I like him, is a fan boy with reviews that are lite and absolutely no depth.
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