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BMW M5 F90 (2018+) General Forums F90 M5 Pricing, Ordering, Tracking, and European Delivery    Good bye BMW, terrible buying experience/attempt of two cars

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      11-08-2021, 06:15 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by tnutt19 View Post
Your example reminds me of when I was 21 and didnt have 2 dimes to rub together. I just had finished doing a few years of service work down in South America for free and literally was starting out as a college student at 21 with just a little bit of school done I finished during high school. I was in Newport with a friends family and we went to a high end watch store where they had watches from 1k to 500k. I was trying on a 40k Rolex for fun and they were as nice as could be and when I left they gave me their card and so forth. I walked away confused at how nice they treated me and then realized it was because of your situation, you never know who has the money and in the end it is about treating people right. Now I was certainly not expecting over the top coddling but that example has made an impression on me and the service I try to provide to other in my employment and overall how I try to treat others. Sorry to hear your experience, you dress how I do, comfortable.
Haha, indeed some people treat you well and others not so much. The thing is, at least on the very high end, that most people with money dress like you and me, because they simply don't care enough to meet some appearance standard in day to day life. It's the people that always dress over the top that usually are trying to fake it or make an impression to get better treatment. I typically tip 20-25% on a restaurant bill depending on the service, but I'm more than happy to leave a lousy tip if I get ignored or have to wait 30 minutes for a refill on my drink. Same with car buying, I'd rather pay more (never over msrp) and have a better experience than get 5k off the car and scratch my eyes out every time I have to talk to te dealership. It just depends what you value, for me I don't care about money, I spend so much that a few thousand off the car means nothing. Like sure it'd be nice but I'd rather get better treatment and eat in one day instead of going to a restaurant like usual lol.
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      11-08-2021, 06:47 PM   #24
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Not sure how to break the news to you... but half the time these higher end bmws are sold before they even start production, and the ones that aren't sell within days of them hitting dealerships.... like you said they have a waitlist, they couldn't care less if you decide to not buy a car... what is your x5 compared to the 400k+ x cars they make a year? Nothing that's what it is. You clearly said the dealership lied and yet you're still blaming the company that has announced what the changes were and what was going to happen. Every manufacturer is facing chip shortages and delays, bmw tried their best to not have them impact production in any meaningful way and still pump out the same volume of cars, which means they ran out of certain things such as b&w and touch screens and what not. If your car had truly been confirmed and supposed to enter production months ago you wouldn't be having this issue. What I suspect and I'd honestly love to see those screenshots, is that those are proposed production dates and not confirmed production dates sort of like my screenshot. A requested production date with no available quota.
I have this sales quote but also the one from BMW system that shows req, sub and conf production dates. Happy to share through email but not going to change anything, I understand why the delays occured.
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      11-08-2021, 06:54 PM   #25
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You said you are in AZ, right? What dealership did you go through?
Yea to echo - which AZ dealership...everyone is spot on that not all dealerships are the same...and that's VERY true here in the desert.
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      11-08-2021, 07:24 PM   #26
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You said you are in AZ, right? What dealership did you go through?
Im not going to post that publicly, happy to share privately though. I will PM you.
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      11-08-2021, 07:28 PM   #27
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Yea to echo - which AZ dealership...everyone is spot on that not all dealerships are the same...and that's VERY true here in the desert.
I just dont want to publicly bash a dealer. I will share via PM if you really want to know but would ask you do not share publicly. Anyone that is looking to buy and wants to avoid this dealer can PM me privately and I will share, I am not looking to publicly lynch anyone that specifically. I will say it is one of the two on your side of town though.
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      11-08-2021, 07:40 PM   #28
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Yea to echo - which AZ dealership...everyone is spot on that not all dealerships are the same...and that's VERY true here in the desert.
I just dont want to publicly bash a dealer. I will share via PM if you really want to know but would ask you do not share publicly. Anyone that is looking to buy and wants to avoid this dealer can PM me privately and I will share, I am not looking to publicly lynch anyone that specifically. I will say it is one of the two on your side of town though.
Totally fair and respect that!! Needless to say the bottom line is that dealers are very diverse and variable. You're at the mercy of the people and personalities at them each respectively.
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      11-08-2021, 08:20 PM   #29
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Totally fair and respect that!! Needless to say the bottom line is that dealers are very diverse and variable. You're at the mercy of the people and personalities at them each respectively.
Absolutely, an those personalities really come to life in abnormal circumstances like we have our selves in right now. I don’t think the sales rep is a bad person. I just think he is tired of dealing with all the removals from different models and dealing with it as he vented to me on several occasions. I don’t love that he told me not to believe the web if lies when I brought concerns to him where each one materialized to be accurate and was not going to be shared with me but it’s over now. I pass two other dealerships to get to that one and had been going there because I liked their service department better but this was my first experience buying through them so I am no one to them. I’m sure in normal times I would have been as happy as a clam and had my x5 6 weeks ago and my m5 in route but these aren’t normal times so here I am.
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      11-09-2021, 06:27 AM   #30
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Absolutely, an those personalities really come to life in abnormal circumstances like we have our selves in right now. I don’t think the sales rep is a bad person. I just think he is tired of dealing with all the removals from different models and dealing with it as he vented to me on several occasions. I don’t love that he told me not to believe the web if lies when I brought concerns to him where each one materialized to be accurate and was not going to be shared with me but it’s over now. I pass two other dealerships to get to that one and had been going there because I liked their service department better but this was my first experience buying through them so I am no one to them. I’m sure in normal times I would have been as happy as a clam and had my x5 6 weeks ago and my m5 in route but these aren’t normal times so here I am.
Unfortunately service and sales are so separate that one is not indicative of another... it's rare to find both that are good sadly... the dealer I bought my car from, I took my e93 335 for service they told me I needed tires... tires that had 5/32 on them and they claimed they couldn't diagnose my wind noise because my car was unsafe to drive due to my tires. Told me my oil filter housing gasket was leaking, and so was my oil pan gasket and valve cover gasket (all common leaks on the n54 engine) too bad for them, I own a mechanic shop and had just had this stuff done on the car... just didn't add it to the carfax yet. The service department near my house is actually pretty good, never had them try to cheat me out of anything yet, and pricing is reasonable for stuff I don't want to do myself and warranty work. Sadly no loaner since I'm not 25 but that's most dealerships.... at least some will get you into a rental car.
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      11-11-2021, 03:02 PM   #31
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I am not sure if anyone from corporate monitors these forums or takes feedback. After enduring what has been the worst buying experience of my life I just had to cancel my M5 competition and X5 M50I. I have been a long time BMW enthusiast, owner and loyal family member. I currently own a 2017 Alpina B7 and owned a 2017 X5 50I but sold it when I had a "confirmed" production date to replace it which was anything but confirmed despite the promises that confirmed was set in stone. This was not going to be my first M5 either. After settling over and over again to remove options from the X5 and being told over and over again they are options "I do not really need".. Those are not the same sales tactics that were taken when I bought my M5, B7 or last X5 or any of the other cars I have owned from BMW, that I can promise. I hit an impasse though this week that was the straw that finally broke the camels back. I was patient with the "confirmed" production date for both cars getting delayed over and over to where the M5 has been moved back over 3 months and is still stated as tentative. I was patient with my wife being stuck with out a car causing her to drive mine since I was told the production date for the X5 was set in stone so we sold her X5. I was patient with the many options that had to be removed that we enjoyed in our last X5 like soft close doors, wireless charging and more. I was patient having to be the one bringing to the dealer anytime there was a reason to believe the dates may be delayed and getting told I am being influenced by a forum of people that have no idea what they are talking about, each time materialized to be delays though. My rep came to me 2 weeks after I told him of the coming delay due to B&W and acted like a hero letting me know he found it was being delayed due to B&W, the same thing he said I was crazy for believing a forum. He told me stories of delivering cars to individuals and at delivery finding out there were many features missing from HUD to power seats. Did not exactly instill confidence that I could trust him to be on top of my two cars. So when i brought to him touch screen being removed and got the same response until he checked his inbox and found many emails on the matter that was problematic. My X5 that 2 weeks prior I made a concession to drop B&W with a promise it would go straight to product and not lose more features was now losing back up assistant and touch screen and he was not going to tell me about it. My wife used touch screen everyday in her X5 and uses it in my Alpina that she is now driving due to her car being sold. I tried to work with him saying that this would be a deal breaker but if we could confirm what the problem really is so I can verify i can retrofit it I would take delivery of the car. I was fed contradicting information from him and his GM that clearly showed they do not understand Idrive and were blowing smoke. I am likely the only person in the country that has taken an NBT from a 2015 M5 and retrofitted to EVO with the 4G ATM and got it activated. That unit I could plug in touch screen or non touch and both work. I explained this to them that either it is a simple replacement of hardware otherwise there is something else they are not sharing that is causing the issue and if they could confirm that would allow me to know how to solve. They literally came back and said "It is a hardware issue, not a software issue so is not possible to retrofit". Circles were run with me asking for them to be precise in what hardware change since they said it was not just the touch screen but with emails shared from corporate included would not share details. I finally told them it is not my job to fix their problems so since they wanted to continue with lies and contradictions they can resolve or I would be passing on the car. They responded that they took my name off the car and then asked if I still wanted the M5??? Seriously?? After months of patiently waiting and all the treatment that was their response, they were going to their waitlist. The sales rep and I went back and forth for 3 weeks waiting on B&W according his suggestion to see if it cleared up. If B&W was a big deal why would they think I am ok removing more features. Corporate knew about this touch screen issue when they verified if we dropped B&W they would go right to production and decided to hold that detail back and sneak it on, pushing it on to the consumer. My dealer was complicit in blaming corporate and stating it is all their fault and they can not help me, yet they threw me aside since they have a nice long waitlist due to lack of inventory. So I cancelled both cars officially and told them if that was the route they were pushing me too I would be leaving the brand indefinitely. I received an impersonal email telling me to let them know if I ever changed my mind and then text messages from the sales rep saying I have bad information and essentially I needed to stop listening to the forums. Seriously, we were still arguing about if my information was accurate, that was his take away, wake up BMW!

This is a consolidated version of my terrible experience, I am not complaining about having an unofficial date for my M5, I am/ was fine waiting. I am not ok though with being treated like a dog, like I am lucky to be buying a BMW and should be ok being treated terribly and thank them. removing features and not telling customers, making them figure it out at delivery.. really?! I understand supply chain issues but you have to stop blaming all your terrible behavior and shortcomings on your supply chain. We the customers are no dummies, we work in production, tech, product development, shipping and more and know the issues you are facing. Ironically I am in ASIA right now working on product development and supply chain issues. Part shortages due to the many reasons they occur and how you run your business and treat the customer are two very different things.

I have sent an email to the CEO and hope someone in his office takes my email serious and offers up a solution. Honestly my treatment has been so poor I am anxious to first hear if they care, next if they want to resolve and 3rd their ideas of how they correct such a terrible experience from a loyal BMW family member.

If they do not correct then as soon as I can get my wife a new car ill be selling my Alpina B7 and F10 M5 and will sadly leave the family for life. I am as loyal as they come but am principal minded and will not tolerate this treatment. The dealership is blaming corporate saying it is all corporate and they are saints and amazing and I should feel blessed to be able to be considered to by a car from their dealership, what does BMW have to say about this?

I will update if I get a response and pray and hope that you all are having better experiences than me. I am so disappointed, my wife and I were very excited for our new cars. Buying a BMW use to be an amazing process, you felt like family, you felt special, like you mattered and got the butterflies of excitement. This has been anything but that.
Even though I currently own new M3 and M5CS, I'm not a big fan of BMW, anymore. Yes, they do make some great cars, but the brand and dealerships are not what they used to be. I will agree with OP that it used be a great experience buying BMW. Now, most dealers and corporation don't give shite about you. They don't care about your complaining, because they know some poor sap will buy their car if you don't buy it.
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      11-12-2021, 06:37 AM   #32
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Update:
I was finally about to connect with the representative assigned to me from BMWNA. There was 2 days of missing one another due to me being in ASIA but I was able to connect after arriving back state side.
They wanted to know if I was open to using a different dealer first and foremost. I of course said that was a given. They said they are motivated to find a resolution and will need about a week to do so. They acknowledged that understand it i time sensitive and also agreed that my experience was extremely poor. They of course blamed it on their supply chain issues though.

From what I can see it sounds like they are going to try and find allocation to use at a local dealership. I let the rep. know I was talking too that the new dealer had no allocation for M5 and wouldnt have any for a long time and that they thought they might have for the X5 in a few weeks but were not sure what month that would be for. She again recognized that it was time sensitive and they would find a resolution.

I suppose 1 week will give more information as to if a solution can be derived.
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      11-12-2021, 08:21 AM   #33
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Update:
I was finally about to connect with the representative assigned to me from BMWNA. There was 2 days of missing one another due to me being in ASIA but I was able to connect after arriving back state side.
They wanted to know if I was open to using a different dealer first and foremost. I of course said that was a given. They said they are motivated to find a resolution and will need about a week to do so. They acknowledged that understand it i time sensitive and also agreed that my experience was extremely poor. They of course blamed it on their supply chain issues though.

From what I can see it sounds like they are going to try and find allocation to use at a local dealership. I let the rep. know I was talking too that the new dealer had no allocation for M5 and wouldnt have any for a long time and that they thought they might have for the X5 in a few weeks but were not sure what month that would be for. She again recognized that it was time sensitive and they would find a resolution.

I suppose 1 week will give more information as to if a solution can be derived.
Talk to your dealership and see if they're willing to trade an allocation. My dealer had to for my m5 and traded for an x7 with a dealership in Iowa (I'm in NJ). If they want to help there's many ways a dealership can make things work.
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      11-12-2021, 09:09 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by micvite View Post
Talk to your dealership and see if they're willing to trade an allocation. My dealer had to for my m5 and traded for an x7 with a dealership in Iowa (I'm in NJ). If they want to help there's many ways a dealership can make things work.
I am going to leave it to BMWNA at this point. I had allocation prior to the terrible buying experience. I ordered my M5 in August with Allocation and confirmed production date of week 40 that was stalled due to B&W shortage. Lost the M5 allocation when the deal went south with the X5.

At this point I am giving BMWNA a chance to correct and make right but am more concerned about getting a X5 M50I for my wife, I can hold onto my Alpina B7.
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      11-15-2021, 01:16 AM   #35
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Not trying to be a dick….but you are overestimating your importance to them. Sure, you may have bought a couple expensive cars in the past…..but they probably barely made any money off you because of the deals they were giving on these cars. Now the market is such that someone else will gladly take the car you didn't want and sell to a new person. This new person will pay MSRP (and not care about absence of touchscreen, B and W, etc.).

It's just the market right now. Same thing happening with Rolex where dealers are treating customers like trash.
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      11-15-2021, 11:01 AM   #36
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Not trying to be a dick….but you are overestimating your importance to them. Sure, you may have bought a couple expensive cars in the past…..but they probably barely made any money off you because of the deals they were giving on these cars. Now the market is such that someone else will gladly take the car you didn't want and sell to a new person. This new person will pay MSRP (and not care about absence of touchscreen, B and W, etc.).

It's just the market right now. Same thing happening with Rolex where dealers are treating customers like trash.
This is exactly what happened with the dealer and may or may not happen with BMWNA. Like I said, I am not holding my breath. I believe in giving them the chance to correct it, which they claim to have a desire to do.
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      11-15-2021, 02:40 PM   #37
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At this point I am passing on the M5 and just waiting on BMW to see if I still buy my wife an X5 M50I. I put down a deposit today for a Porsche for myself though, just lost the excitement for the M5 after a crummy experience. Looking at alternatives for my wife as well but she loved her last X5 50I so would like to give the business to BMW if they can figure this out.
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      11-16-2021, 02:48 PM   #38
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At this point I am passing on the M5 and just waiting on BMW to see if I still buy my wife an X5 M50I. I put down a deposit today for a Porsche for myself though, just lost the excitement for the M5 after a crummy experience. Looking at alternatives for my wife as well but she loved her last X5 50I so would like to give the business to BMW if they can figure this out.
I received a response back from BMW NA today saying they have an inquiry open looking for allocation. I responded asking clarification for what exactly that means and no response yet.
Mean while my wife is losing interest, may allocate the Porsche to her since I told her if the BMW didnt work out she could take that. If that happens ill just keep the Alpina until that comes in and then sell it and regroup.

Not holding my breath on BMW correcting right now though.
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      11-17-2021, 04:28 PM   #39
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Update:
The new dealer has been a breath of fresh air. They ended up finding allocation on a X7 M50I which I built custom and put a deposit down on. Where it gets interesting though is I received a call back from their GM stating he received a call from BMW NA in which they gave him production numbers for both an X5 M50I and M5 if I want them. So BMW NA did care and came through. Lesson, I had a really bad experience with a short sighted dealer. The irony is my other car with touchless showed up today to the dealer but it has been confirmed with BMW NA that my cars will have touch either way.
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      11-17-2021, 07:08 PM   #40
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refer back to post 3, first sentence lol
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      11-18-2021, 01:21 AM   #41
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refer back to post 3, first sentence lol
Exactly! I have to give it BMW NA though, they acted quickly and did what they could to make it right. The dealer I am working with too is a night and day difference.
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      11-18-2021, 07:28 AM   #42
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Exactly! I have to give it BMW NA though, they acted quickly and did what they could to make it right. The dealer I am working with too is a night and day difference.
Curious, they gave you production numbers but have they assigned a production dates? I have had a production number since July, but I'm still in production purgatory!
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      11-20-2021, 09:26 AM   #43
FSHNGRY
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Originally Posted by micvite View Post
So... let me tl;Dr this for everyone:

You sold your old car with no idea as to when you're getting a new one and you're blaming the company, not the terrible dealer.
You're combining about features being removed and production being pushed back over 3 months which would mean you had a production date estimated for 3 months ago, and instead of realizing your dealership lied their ass off to you, you still blame BMW that had nothing to do with it... (and fyi, my m5 which just arrived at the port has b&w, Order placed in August, production date of Oct 6) the m5s only got moved back for some people with later production dates if they were adamant on keeping b&w in which case bmw moved back production to see if they could add it back on. Others have opted to remove b&w and are now expecting their car or have even gotten theirs.

I'm honestly hoping the ceo returns your "I don't wanna be a bmw customer anymore" with a "we don't want customers like you" as one manufacturer famously said in the past. You did end up realizing the dealership you're dealing with is terrible and yet here you are trying to blame people that have nothing to do with it... I wouldn't be surprised if the dealership just wanted you our of their hair to sell those cars to someone else with a nice mark-up assuming you got a decent deal on them. Sad to say, but not every dealership is created equal. I was able to retain all my m5 features, even add options not on the VIA (carbon fiber bits, including kidney grilles which are limited in stock), get a confirmed production date (they had to trade with a dealership in Iowa when bmw decided to pull one of their allocations which was supposed to be mine, initially a week 39 production, they managed to find me a week 40 instead) if your dealer wanted you to have a car and wanted you as a customer they'd have made it happen, it's not hard to find a car that's either spelled the way you want, or at least a production slot that they could trade with someone else to move your car forward. My best guess is they didn't even have a slot for you and they kept pushing things back in hopes bmw gave them one. And if you want to confirm anything I said, talk to bmw on Twitter and they'll work with you to figure stuff out.

OP, First off, I'm terribly sorry about the experience you've had with buying a BMW (not your first I see). I do however, agree with a lot of the points mentioned in your post, except on a much larger scale.

It seems as though "customer service" as a whole has either been put on hold, forgotten entirely, or straight up ignored by virtually ALL salesmen.

I remember a time when a potential buyer would walk into a jewelry store, car dealership, an open house to see a potential home, etc., and you would be catered to. I'm not talking about red carpet "let me wash your car for you sir" treatment. Instead, it was an attitude and tone from anyone who was excited at your interest to purchase something from their location/dealership. You were treated with respect, hell you'd even get a bottle of water, coffee or snack at most places you'd be willing to shell out 6 figures for a "toy"

Nowadays? you hit it on the head. "Be thankful I'm even listening to your request to take your hard earned pennies and give them to me. I'll consider it. " mentality. When the hell did this become the norm for business practice? I'm not sure about you OP, or anyone else on here who may read this, but I for one, have become exhausted, and quite angry by the expectations of the world now. The way i've learned, and watched throughout my years before being able to play in this game, IS NOT how the game is played now. And sadly, it seems as though this toxic way of doing business/treating a customer is everywhere.

Be patient OP. Things will eventually go back to normal. A car salesman will always be that. A car salesman. We will see the days again when car dealerships have more inventory then they can stomach, and we'll all go back to making an offer, and getting the F up out of there only for them to beg us to come back and take it.

Best of luck to you and your wife, sorry to hear about the nightmare experience
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      11-23-2021, 06:02 PM   #44
tnutt19
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Originally Posted by AGS View Post
Curious, they gave you production numbers but have they assigned a production dates? I have had a production number since July, but I'm still in production purgatory!
Production dates would have been January, I switched and went with a X7 M50I that my dealer I am working with now secured for me that is week 48. M5 I no longer am buying but also would have been January assigned production.
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