[will0621]

Has anyone been able to confirm that the CS has the same exact springs and dampers as the M5c lci? So all the suspension changes are on the software side?

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by will0621

Has anyone been able to confirm that the CS has the same exact springs and dampers as the M5c lci? So all the suspension changes are on the software side?

Many "reviewers" keep stating that the CS received M8 dampers as if it was something new specific to the CS while many of them fail to realize that even the M5C received M8 dampers. Starting to think it's all a placebo effect due to the tires and they just like to quote each other as not to stand out as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

On the technical side of things, not much has changed. The 4.4-liter twin-turbo V8 is still under the hood and the same gearbox is used along with the M xDrive system. The performance figures have remained the same but, according to BMW, the suspension is supposed to be better now. That’s because the M5 LCI now has the same dampers as the BMW M8 Gran Coupe. How much of a difference that makes, remains to be seen, but I’m willing to bet you can’t really tell which is which by feeling alone.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/12/23/b...on-lci-review/

[Day Laborer]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Guys, that's how it always is - just look at the Iphone which year after year IS a little better, but if you compare the overall package it's about 99% the same. If you gave each example to 80% of the population, they wouldn't know the difference unless you pointed it out. Small progressive steps. Without them, people would not continue to buy the product.

"Newer, better, buy buy buy!" There is not a huge difference between the M5 vs M5C vs M5CS - certainly not big enough during daily driving. To top it off, the CS actually takes steps back what the M5 is actually supposed to be - an executive luxury sedan that's fast and not a track car like an M2CS. Who in their right mind really wants to toss a 2k+ ton car around the track when there are much better/smaller cars that are suited for it and give you a better sense of speed?

Reviewers have a job. Do you think they would get clicks or car magazines would sell if they were saying "This car is the same as before, suspension is 5% softer and the tires are better. You get carbon fiber but you lose many luxury features. Pay premium!" We all buy the product that's available at that point in time. They will not make it worse, they will just make it slightly better to push that buyer who was on the edge and incentivise a new sale.

If you have an M5C and you think the M5 is much different - you are wrong. Same with the CS guys who think their car is much different than the other two.

You're comparing a smart phone technology with automotive vehicles that go through rigorous test and evaluation, research and development, on physics benchmarks that involves a wide range of disciplines and test environments. — all while ignoring positive reviews that specifically point out the massive improvements compared to the M5C; not only that model but overwhelmingly against many other cars in the across different and similar market segments

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Day Laborer

You're comparing a smart phone technology with automotive vehicles that go through rigorous test and evaluation, research and development, on physics benchmarks that involves a wide range of disciplines and test environments. — all while ignoring positive reviews that specifically point out the massive improvements compared to the M5C; not only that model but overwhelmingly against many other cars in the across different and similar market segments

I'm comparing general sales strategies. If paying premium for tires, M3 seats, carbon fiber and missing options is worth it, then more power to you. Everything else is subjective, including that some of the high praise reviewers didnt even know that the C and CS use the same dampers 😂

[Ex_Stig]

Originally Posted by ABenChod

To be fair, the "carbon buckets" in the M5CS (and G8X) are mostly for show. They save almost no weight (Bryan from Kies Motorsports has a video saying that it only felt about 3 lbs lighter than his non-comp F80 seats). They do almost nothing to save weight whereas Porsche GT buckets do save a lot of weight (no motors, ass heaters or the gimmicky CF banana hammock).

Did he actually remove the seats and weigh them? Or is he just going off what he "thinks" they weigh?

[Day Laborer]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I'm comparing general sales strategies. If paying premium for tires, M3 seats, carbon fiber and missing options is worth it, then more power to you. Everything else is subjective, including that some of the high praise reviewers didnt even know that the C and CS use the same dampers 😂

You sound salty AF. Seems like this sentiment is mirrored by many M5C owners across this forum.

I for one am just happy that BMW is willing to meet the demand of customers who want a product that exceeds expectations

By applying your logic, then the M4GTS is just an extra cage, the M2CS is just an additional carbon fiber bonnet, all of which is just a marketing ploy to take your money.

Sounds like you're just a consumer and not an enthausist

[ABenLauda]

Originally Posted by Ex Stig

Did he actually remove the seats and weigh them? Or is he just going off what he "thinks" they weigh?

He didn't weigh them. It was his opinion on what he thought the weight delta was from lifting both seats back to back.

[malrash]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I'm comparing general sales strategies. If paying premium for tires, M3 seats, carbon fiber and missing options is worth it, then more power to you. Everything else is subjective, including that some of the high praise reviewers didnt even know that the C and CS use the same dampers 😂

You haven’t driven the CS, therefore your assumptions have little value.
There are folks here who have driven both iterations, and would strongly disagree with you. I’d wait to comment till you are able to drive one.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Day Laborer

You sound salty AF. Seems like this sentiment is mirrored by many M5C owners across this forum.

I for one am just happy that BMW is willing to meet the demand of customers who want a product that exceeds expectations

By applying your logic, then the M4GTS is just an extra cage, the M2CS is just an additional carbon fiber bonnet, all of which is just a marketing ploy to take your money.

Sounds like you're just a consumer and not an enthausist

Actually, the M2CS did add additional performance items (a significant HP bump to start with) justifying the value - including adaptive dampers compared to the regular M2C. You are comparing apples to oranges. You may want to do more research before you respond

The M5CS updates are mostly cosmetic. This is also confirmed by such a small Nurburgring time variance between the pre-LCI M5 and the M5 CS, which can mostly be attributed to Cup 2 tires and less weight (carbon fiber and options on the car). As you (hopefully) know, tires are the biggest x-factor when it coems to comparing apples to apples. Everything you are quoting are just subjective oppinions and placebo effects. I like to state facts from valid sources (such as lap times) whereas you are just quoting Youtube reviewers Nothing wrong with subjective OPINIONS, but there is something wrong when you start turning opinions into facts.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by malrash

You haven’t driven the CS, therefore your assumptions have little value.
There are folks here who have driven both iterations, and would strongly disagree with you. I’d wait to comment till you are able to drive one.

Oh yeah. Please tell me more about the cars I've driven...

[Day Laborer]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Actually, the M2CS did add additional performance items (a significant HP bump to start with) justifying the value - including adaptive dampers compared to the regular M2C. You are comparing apples to oranges. You may want to do more research before you respond

The M5CS updates are mostly cosmetic. This is also confirmed by such a small Nurburgring time variance between the pre-LCI M5 and the M5 CS, which can mostly be attributed to Cup 2 tires and less weight (carbon fiber and options on the car). As you (hopefully) know, tires are the biggest x-factor when it coems to comparing apples to apples. Everything you are quoting are just subjective oppinions and placebo effects. I like to state facts from valid sources (such as lap times) whereas you are just quoting Youtube reviewers Nothing wrong with subjective OPINIONS, but there is something wrong when you start turning opinions into facts.

Ok mr. numbers guy- sounds like haven't done the research yourself. Press vehicles came with either Pirelli Corsas or Pirelli Zeros, customer cars may come with PS4S, but no Michelin Cup 2 options.
While the LCI can be customized with similar options, such as CCBs and extended leather- the end result is shy of an additional maybe 10-15k at the end of the day, compared to a similarly optioned M5C LCI

As far as the your assumptions that the dampers + CF bits are the only changes to this car; do you have actual proof from BMW documentation that thats all?

Engine mounts, revised engine tuning + more power (635 vs 617), revised steering wheel, transmission tuning, chassis revisions like additional camber and height, not to mention the actual R&D and testing that made the CS possible - those you also excluded.


At the end of the day, this model does something that the other M5 models fail to do. Impress automotive enthusiasts; which clearly you are not.

[malrash]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Oh yeah. Please tell me more about the cars I've driven...

The cars you have driven have no relevance here punk……
Showing your complex. Not good

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Day Laborer

Ok mr. numbers guy- sounds like haven't done the research yourself. Press vehicles came with either Pirelli Corsas or Pirelli Zeros, customer cars may come with PS4S, but no Michelin Cup 2 options.
While the LCI can be customized with similar options, such as CCBs and extended leather- the end result is shy of an additional maybe 10-15k at the end of the day, compared to a similarly optioned M5C LCI

As far as the your assumptions that the dampers + CF bits are the only changes to this car; do you have actual proof from BMW documentation that thats all?

Engine mounts, revised engine tuning + more power (635 vs 617), revised steering wheel, transmission tuning, chassis revisions like additional camber and height, not to mention the actual R&D and testing that made the CS possible - those you also excluded.


At the end of the day, this model does something that the other M5 models fail to do. Impress automotive enthusiasts; which clearly you are not.

Clearly you did not read what I said. The Cup 2 tires were used on the Nurburgring where the CS was a merely 6 seconds faster than a non-Cup 2 pre LCI M5. No one mentioned that they were used during reviews

The newest model always "impresses" Youtube reviewers. Nothing new here. They are looking for clicks from people such as yourself. "Hey everyone, look, spread the word the new model is barely quicker, but it's so amazing!"

At the end of the day, the M5, M5C and M5CS are within 2% of one another when you compare apples to apples. The main differentiator is the lack of weight (options) and the tires on the CS.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by malrash

The cars you have driven have no relevance here punk……
Showing your complex. Not good

Can't argue with such a smart comment. You sound like an Ivy league graduate...

[Ex_Stig]

Another thread ruined by a bunch of keyboard warriors getting into a penis measuring contest. Well done! You're all winners (in your own book)!

[malrash]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Can't argue with such a smart comment. You sound like an Ivy league graduate...

You can’t argue…..period.

[Day Laborer]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Clearly you did not read what I said. The Cup 2 tires were used on the Nurburgring where the CS was a merely 6 seconds faster than a non-Cup 2 pre LCI M5. No one mentioned that they were used during reviews

The newest model always "impresses" Youtube reviewers. Nothing new here. They are looking for clicks from people such as yourself. "Hey everyone, look, spread the word the new model is barely quicker, but it's so amazing!"

At the end of the day, the M5, M5C and M5CS are within 2% of one another when you compare apples to apples. The main differentiator is the lack of weight (options) and the tires on the CS.

[IMG][/IMG]
Sure about your facts there buddy?

Clearly shows Pirelli Corsa's on the magazine's lap test, which is not an official lap time from BMW, but a journalist - whom you clearly don't even think have any value, yet you're taking their lap times as the word of God

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Day Laborer

[IMG][/IMG]
Sure about your facts there buddy?

Clearly shows Pirelli Corsa's on the magazine's lap test, which is not an official lap time from BMW, but a journalist - whom you clearly don't even think have any value, yet you're taking their lap times as the word of God

I stand corrected, I must have misread. Even so, those are much better tires than stock M5 tires which play a big factor in the overall experience.

My whole point is, BMW didn't re-invent the chassis just for the M5CS. They made subtle tweaks (and in some cases they had already made those tweaks on the M5C) to improve the car, but reading some of the comments you would think that they built a brand new chassis just for the CS.

[Day Laborer]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I stand corrected, I must have misread. Even so, those are much better tires than stock M5 tires which play a big factor in the overall experience.

My whole point is, BMW didn't re-invent the chassis just for the M5CS. They made subtle tweaks (and in some cases they had already made those tweaks on the M5C) to improve the car, but reading some of the comments you would think that they built a brand new chassis just for the CS.

I get that you are skeptical, I do. But the thoughts expressed on these forums are opinions, some are from actual perspective and experience; its not gospel - but it much of it is from an honest "first-time impression", but those are the things that make a long lasting impression.

No one is bashing the M5 or M5C, but what if those subtle changes collectively did result in really transforming the car?
It doesn't mean the M5 or M5C is any lesser of a great car right?

Honestly, your skepticism could be better expressed as an opinion, rather than how you boldly states them as hard facts.

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I like to state facts from valid sources (such as lap times) whereas you are just quoting Youtube reviewers Nothing wrong with subjective OPINIONS, but there is something wrong when you start turning opinions into facts.

I for one, never communicated my opinions, as facts - go up and read them, I specifically said I was simply sharing my experience

Originally Posted by Day Laborer

I didn't write an extensive review of the vehicle, these were my initial impressions.
****
Nothing I said were outside of the same reviews coming from nearly every single published auto-journalist's review, and I'm not here to preach or change your minds; I was simply sharing my experience

[HUM5INT]

I personally love the god damn f'n cup holders in my '21 M5C LCI. I mean damn…I can tell they tightened the grips inside them so there's probably about an extra 0.05 lbs of pressure to keep my Starbucks drink very well secure!!

Point being…some of these granularities are so trivial that is it worth squabbling over and smacking your pipes with each other about them? No it's not. Who gives a shit. Honestly.

I love my M5C LCI. I think the M5CS is also simultaneously a great, unique extension of the model that has its own relevant features that appeal to some and not to others. But as a BMW loyalist and enthusiast I first and foremost respect everyone's opinion on their BMW of choice. If I don't like the damn tires or air freshener or interior LED color…I'll just carry on.

1. Be thankful and fortunate you can have either of these.
2. Most other makes don't have such a great model lineup and extension.

Now…I'm going to f'n light up a cigar and have some tequila.

[cheveux]

calm down people

Remember that i "reviewed" this car in the "Portuguese context", and by that i mean: a difference of 75000€ from the M5C!
Thats was the price of a M2 Competition here.

I just wanted to justify the price difference, that's all.

[BayDriverSF]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

Sad, but very true. And too many of them find themselves in the driver's seat, I'm sorry to say, of M cars, with a falsely presumed receipt of driving talent just because they got access to the key and the driver's seat.

Actually you won't find those entitled snowflakes behind the wheel of an M5, because an M5 is not something that's handed to you for free by the government (not yet, at least) — you have to earn it.