[Used2be]

Originally Posted by Demon Barber

Just surprised you can get all of that handling comparison information on public roads.

Exactly. And the OP mentions "I haven't even pushed the car yet since I'm under break-in miles." Is it possible his evaluation is tilted to the CS since he just spent $140K on the car? I'm sure the CS is a good car, but with the driving skills most of us have, will the small % of possible improvement in handling and power feel any different to us on the street?

I'm looking forward to a comparison from someone in a position to offer a high speed track comparison between the CS and a non CS. Someone like shawnhayes at VIR for example? I think he has a CS on the way? Actual lap times will be interesting, and I have a feeling the extra support from the carbon bucket seats will be a noticeable benefit over a two day weekend of driving. I'm an older guy and maybe that's part of it, but I feel the tight muscles after two days of pushing the car around a track.

[Day Laborer]

Originally Posted by Used2be

Exactly. And the OP mentions "I haven't even pushed the car yet since I'm under break-in miles." Is it possible his evaluation is tilted to the CS since he just spent $140K on the car? I'm sure the CS is a good car, but with the driving skills most of us have, will the small % of possible improvement in handling and power feel any different to us on the street?

I'm looking forward to a comparison from someone in a position to offer a high speed track comparison between the CS and a non CS. Someone like shawnhayes at VIR for example? I think he has a CS on the way? Actual lap times will be interesting, and I have a feeling the extra support from the carbon bucket seats will be a noticeable benefit over a two day weekend of driving. I'm an older guy and maybe that's part of it, but I feel the tight muscles after two days of pushing the car around a track.

I didn't write an extensive review of the vehicle, these were my initial impressions.

My write up was not intended to bash on the M5C in any means.

In addition, I'd like to think I am a fairly decent position to have opinions on how I felt in the car.
I've had plenty of track time since 2012; across VIR (a decent 2:07), Watkins, Lime Rock, Dominion & Summit Point with my car ownership history of a M4 GTS (4 years/present), F87 M2 (5 years), F10 M5(5 years) , & E92 M3 (7 years).

Nothing I said were outside of the same reviews coming from nearly every single published auto-journalist's review, and I'm not here to preach or change your minds; I was simply sharing my experience

[Demon Barber]

Originally Posted by Day Laborer

I didn't write an extensive review of the vehicle, these were my initial impressions.

My write up was not intended to bash on the M5C in any means.

In addition, I'd like to think I am a fairly decent position to have opinions on how I felt in the car.
I've had plenty of track time since 2012; across VIR (a decent 2:07), Watkins, Lime Rock, Dominion & Summit Point with my car ownership history of a M4 GTS (4 years/present), F87 M2 (5 years), F10 M5(5 years) , & E92 M3 (7 years).

Nothing I said were outside of the same reviews coming from nearly every single published auto-journalist's review, and I'm not here to preach or change your minds; I was simply sharing my experience

No doubt you're right that it handles better. Just surprised it's that much better, and noticeably so off the track.

[Day Laborer]

Originally Posted by Demon Barber

No doubt you're right that it handles better. Just surprised it's that much better, and noticeably so off the track.

I'd offer you a drive if you were closer, as I did for my friend.

For a truly unbiased opinion DM my friend who drove my car last Saturday

[tjlees]

I think the M5 CS is a definite improvement over the M5C in the handling department if I believe the reviews.

However on track, the M5C is a beast! it maybe numb handling while on a public road, but once the front is loaded at near limit of grip it comes into its own. also takes the brutal curbs at Llandow with ease.

and for those laptimes ...

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/llandow

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by Day Laborer

I didn't write an extensive review of the vehicle, these were my initial impressions.

My write up was not intended to bash on the M5C in any means.

In addition, I'd like to think I am a fairly decent position to have opinions on how I felt in the car.
I've had plenty of track time since 2012; across VIR (a decent 2:07), Watkins, Lime Rock, Dominion & Summit Point with my car ownership history of a M4 GTS (4 years/present), F87 M2 (5 years), F10 M5(5 years) , & E92 M3 (7 years).

Nothing I said were outside of the same reviews coming from nearly every single published auto-journalist's review, and I'm not here to preach or change your minds; I was simply sharing my experience

I believe it’s very difficult to discern subtle handling differences between two similar high end vehicles while driving on the street, even if you are exceeding the speed limits.

You weren’t preaching or bashing at all, my only criticism was that you make conclusions while not pushing either car to a level to determine which one is truly better. But, as I reread your #30 post, you are only talking about feel, not actual performance, so perhaps I jumped to my own conclusions too quickly. I will be interested to see if the improved feel will translate to better lap times on track.

I think many published auto journalists fall into the same easy ‘initial feel’ with glowing reports of advances in the newest release from whichever manufacturer. It’s new, so it must be better sort of thing, plus it promotes conversation over the new automobile which is how they make their living.

Excellent, I hope you’ll be able to take your M5CS to VIR to find out how much better the CS is than other models of the M5! I’ll be interested to read your report. You do have an extensive owning history and a good basis for comparison, although the track times will make the definitive judgement. I hope the M5CS lives up to the claims BMW makes for it.

[Chicane_]

Isn't how it 'feels' the most important thing?

The CS is lighter, lower, has more sport-oriented dampers, firmer spring rates and sway bars and stiffer ball joints, all of which also take advantage of the stickier rubber. It's going to be faster around a circuit. How much faster? Don't know, don't care but the changes are directionally correct towards a shorter lap time.

The car 'feels' more agile and direct. The stiffer engine mounts and subframe bushings also contribute towards more driver engagement and feedback from the road surface.

I highly recommend trying one.

[babaikram]

Originally Posted by Used2be

I believe it’s very difficult to discern subtle handling differences between two similar high end vehicles while driving on the street, even if you are exceeding the speed limits.

You weren’t preaching or bashing at all, my only criticism was that you make conclusions while not pushing either car to a level to determine which one is truly better. But, as I reread your #30 post, you are only talking about feel, not actual performance, so perhaps I jumped to my own conclusions too quickly. I will be interested to see if the improved feel will translate to better lap times on track.

I think many published auto journalists fall into the same easy ‘initial feel’ with glowing reports of advances in the newest release from whichever manufacturer. It’s new, so it must be better sort of thing, plus it promotes conversation over the new automobile which is how they make their living.

Excellent, I hope you’ll be able to take your M5CS to VIR to find out how much better the CS is than other models of the M5! I’ll be interested to read your report. You do have an extensive owning history and a good basis for comparison, although the track times will make the definitive judgement. I hope the M5CS lives up to the claims BMW makes for it.

Are you saying Chris Harris and all the other reviewers are wrong? M5CS driving characteristics have been described as much better than M5C, even by reviewers that were not impressed by M5C. The aggregate of all reviews supports the above

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

Isn't how it 'feels' the most important thing?

I highly recommend trying one.

How it ‘feels’ is fine if that’s all you want. How it ‘does’ is more important to me. My point in my post is that the cars were compared on the street and not pushed to a level that would expose deficiencies in either one. I’m sure the M5CS is a very good car, and if I could afford one I would try one.

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by babaikram

Are you saying Chris Harris and all the other reviewers are wrong? M5CS driving characteristics have been described as much better than M5C, even by reviewers that were not impressed by M5C. The aggregate of all reviews supports the above

No, I’m saying that reviewers in general tend to give new cars the benefit of the doubt. I’m not in the market for a M5CS and haven’t read reviews of it. I have no idea if the reviews are right or wrong. I hope the reviewers pushed the car on the track to feel the benefit of the engineering that’s gone into it. I wasn’t criticizing the CS, just the way it was compared to another car by driving them on the street.

[tjlees]

not convinced that M5 CS is no more than a 70kg weight saving and 'recalibration'

Changing the suspension settings, toe/castor and tyre choice on my track car makes a big difference, so saving weight, swapping in corsa tyres and 'retuning' the chassis plus a sprinkling of a few horses would transform a M5C.

extracts from M5C press pack ...

Oil supply system designed for track driving.
The V8 engine utilises optimised turbochargers and maximum injection pressure of 350 bar. This allows shorter injection times and improved atomisation of fuel, for faster engine response as well as more efficient mixture preparation. Improvements have also been made to lubrication and cooling, including an oil pan with a small front sump and an indirect charge
air cooling system, which is extremely effective despite taking up little space. The oil supply system uses a fully variable, map-controlled pump and has
been designed for outings on the race track, where it can handle very high levels of longitudinal and lateral acceleration.

Bespoke engine mounting for the BMW M5 Competition.
One special feature of the BMW M5 Competition is its bespoke engine mounts, which are stiffer than in the BMW M5; its spring rate of 900 N/mm compares with 580 N/mm in the non-Competition car. The drive unit's firmer connection to the vehicle's structure is clearly perceptible, resulting in even more rapid engine response and immediate transmission of its power
to the drivetrain. The experience is further enhanced by bringing the V8's unmistakable aural properties into the cabin to even more arresting effect. The car also turns into corners with noticeably greater directness and precision on account of the extra stiffness in the mounts.

New dampers for the BMW M5 Competition.
The BMW M5 Competition has a specially tuned and even stiffer chassis, and now also benefits from experience gained in the development of the new BMW M8 Gran Coupé, whose shock absorbers have been carried over. The damper control system was adapted accordingly and fully recalibrated, which has led to an increase in comfort in high-speed motorway
driving, in particular. Bumps and ruts in the road surface are passed through the body – and therefore to the passengers – to a far lesser degree.
And this is achieved without blunting the car's sporting edge and precision at high or low speeds. In fact, reduced fluctuations in wheel loads have resulted in significantly improved handling at the limit. And that means even more intuitive driveability in everyday use and better handling on the track.

Ride height lowered by seven millimetres; 20-inch wheels.
The BMW M5 Competition rides seven millimetres lower to the ground than the BMW M5 and includes other well-conceived tweaks to the suspension
and springs. The increased camber at the front axle enhances the car's ability to absorb lateral forces through high-speed corners. Fitting the toe links
with ball joints instead of rubber mounts has resulted in even more precise wheel guidance at the rear axle. And the rear anti-roll bar also has a firmer
spring rate, causing the body roll that occurs through high-speed corners to be distributed with a pronounced rear bias. The modified mounting for the
front-axle anti-roll bar combines with ten per cent stiffer springs at the front and rear axles to produce a firmer ride, which also has a positive impact on
steering response. Plus, shorter auxiliary springs reduce fluctuation in wheel loads. The BMW M5 Competition is fitted with forged, bi-colour, 20-inch
M light-alloy wheels in Y-spoke design (front: 9.5 J x 20, rear: 10.5 J x 20) and mixed-size tyres (front: 275/35 R 20, rear: 285/35 R 20).

M5 CS spec ....

Bespoke engine mounts and track-ready oil supply.
The BMW M5 CS is fitted with the engine mounts used in the BMW M5 Competition. These are stiffer than those in the BMW M5, with a spring rate of 900 N/mm (compared with 580 N/mm in the non-Competition M5). The drive unit's firmer connection to the car's structure is clearly perceptible, resulting in even more rapid engine response and immediate transmission
of its power to the drivetrain. The V8 engine – adorned by a bespoke
BMW M Power cover made from exposed carbon fibre and bearing a full-colour M logo – works with optimised turbochargers and has maximum
injection pressure of 350 bar. This allows shorter injection times and improved atomisation of fuel, for faster engine response as well as more efficient
mixture preparation. Improvements have also been made to lubrication and cooling, including an oil pan with a small front sump and an indirect charge
air cooling system, which is extremely effective despite taking up little space. The oil supply system uses a fully variable, map-controlled pump and has
been designed for outings on the race track, where it can handle very high levels of longitudinal and lateral acceleration.

Fine-tuning and adjusting the car to work with track tyres.
The new BMW M5 CS builds on the chassis of the BMW M5 Competition –already a stiffer version of the standard BMW M5's following judicious modifications to the springs, suspension and anti-roll bars – and features a seven-millimetre drop in ride height plus shock absorbers developed for the BMW M8 Gran Coupé. As well as bringing added comfort to the driving experience – particularly on high-speed motorway journeys – these dampers also reduce fluctuation in wheel loads, greatly improving on-the-limit handling. The result is even more precise responses under hard driving on the track,
while the car's intuitive driveability in everyday use is preserved. The BMW M specialists have retuned the bearing springs at the front and rear axle of the
BMW M5 CS and also refined damper control. These measures take account of the lower vehicle weight and the tyres' increased performance potential
and are designed to optimise the car's dynamics. The BMW M5 CS rides as standard on ultra-sporty mixed-size Pirelli P Zero Corsa track tyres measuring
275/35 R 20 at the front and 285/35 R 20 at the rear, which are fitted to 20-inch M forged wheels in Y-spoke design (front: 9.5 J x 20, rear: 10.5 J x 20) with a Goldbronze finish.

[Day Laborer]

Another unbiased opinion from a M5C owner who backed out of his order here and had his friend buy it:

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...highlight=M5CS

Some excerpts:

"I drove the M5CS this morning, and the stand out feature, without question, is the suspension. It sits 7mm lower than the Competition LCI, but the compliance it has, is a revelation. It feels far more comfortable, without any thumping/skipping, or sometimes being knocked off line, by the smallest bumps in the road. It feels much better suited to our back B roads, and seems to take them all in its stride, with outstanding composure, it really is a big difference.
Cant say i noticed a big improvement in straightline performance, over my own car, but felt like i would like to attack the road more because of the suspension. I loved the bucket seats, they were very, very supportive, and along with the alcantara steeringwheel, made the ****pit feel that much more racy.
Overall, the CS does feel like a CS version, if there is such a statement ?, but, but, there is always a but, im still not converted on the price. Its a truly fantastic machine, and i would love that suspension, and the feeling of maybe more confidence it instills, but i just dont think its £50k better than my own car ?."

"There is no doubt in my mind now, that the CS is the better, more up for it, occasional track use, and B road blaster, with fantastic straightline performance too, compared to the Comp LCI. This doesnt mean the LCI is now rubbish, far from it. Yes, it has a firmer ride, but feels more luxurious inside to me, so now there is a bit more choice, all out more focused machine, or slightly more luxurious machine. If the CS is faster in a straightline, it wont be by very much imho, its the way it can float down the road, and maybe the confidence that this inspires, that makes you want to attack the road more, therefore maybe being quicker ?. I noticed that it corners virtually flat too, at moderately high speeds, didnt absolutely flatten it.
So, i guess its up to the individuals wants, to put a price on what they would want to pay. If i could swap my car for the CS, it would be in the garage, if they said £20k.
The biggest disappointment with my car for me, is the noise, it now DOESNT make, i miss the overun bangs and thunderclaps, more than i thought i would, it is absolutely silent. It does still sound good when you are on it, going up the rev range, still very V8ey, but when you are not on it, which is a lot of the time, i can hear my Mrs snoring over the exhaust note . If we could have the full fat noise again, it would be worth more than the £20k to me. The CS doesnt sound any different at all to me, over my car, and i feel BMW have let us down badly in this regard, even with OPFs and EU noise regs, they could have done 100% better. "

"It’s very noticeable, right from the off. I dropped off my friends driveway, which is probably an inch high, and thought, ey up, this feels different , and it was obvious from that point on. Whatever BMW have done with the spring rates and dampers, it feels spot on. It does look much better in the flesh, than the photos depict, it does suit the goldy bronze bits, which I thought I would have off on the first day, but they would definitely be staying."

[tjlees]

i think the 7mm ground clearance is mainly due to the splitter? given the M5 CS and M5C height is only 1mm diff. lower cofg claim is dubious ...

BMW M5 CS
Body
No of doors / seats 4 / 4
Length / width / height
(unladen)
mm 5001 / 1903 / 1468
Wheelbase mm 2982
Track, front / rear mm 1625 / 1594
Ground clearance mm 119

BMW M5 Competition
Body
No of doors/seats 4 / 5
Length/width/height (unladen) mm 4983 / 1903 / 1469
Wheelbase mm 2982
Track, front/rear mm 1625 / 1594
Ground clearance mm 128

BMW M5
Body
No of doors/seats 4 / 5
Length/width/height (unladen) mm 4983 / 1903 / 1473
Wheelbase mm 2982
Track, front/rear mm 1626 / 1594
Ground clearance mm 133

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by cheveux

Last weekend I had the opportunity to test the new BMW M5 CS for a Portuguese television show of which I am a part.

I assume that English is not your first language* but I found the review to be nicely written and quite amusing.

I concur, for what it costs in your country, the car is stupid expensive and not worth the premium.

Here in America, full of fat old men (according to "that guy") it's an almost reasonable car... the M5 I mean, not the CS.

Thanks for sharing.


* - you write better than many people who contribute here for whom English is their first language, which they still haven't mastered.

Originally Posted by Demon Barber

I agree that if you're tracking practically, steel rotors are the way to go, but it's hard to say a car isn't a proper track car because it has CCBs. It's why CCBs exist, if money is no object.

Agree. Also, have to point out, some people (especially, it seems, Porsche buyers) spec CCBs because they don't want to clean brake dust. Seriously.

[AHall]

Originally Posted by tjlees

not convinced that M5 CS is no more than a 70kg weight saving and 'recalibration'

Changing the suspension settings, toe/castor and tyre choice on my track car makes a big difference, so saving weight, swapping in corsa tyres and 'retuning' the chassis plus a sprinkling of a few horses would transform a M5C.

extracts from M5C press pack ...

Oil supply system designed for track driving.
The V8 engine utilises optimised turbochargers and maximum injection pressure of 350 bar. This allows shorter injection times and improved atomisation of fuel, for faster engine response as well as more efficient mixture preparation. Improvements have also been made to lubrication and cooling, including an oil pan with a small front sump and an indirect charge
air cooling system, which is extremely effective despite taking up little space. The oil supply system uses a fully variable, map-controlled pump and has
been designed for outings on the race track, where it can handle very high levels of longitudinal and lateral acceleration.

Bespoke engine mounting for the BMW M5 Competition.
One special feature of the BMW M5 Competition is its bespoke engine mounts, which are stiffer than in the BMW M5; its spring rate of 900 N/mm compares with 580 N/mm in the non-Competition car. The drive unit's firmer connection to the vehicle's structure is clearly perceptible, resulting in even more rapid engine response and immediate transmission of its power
to the drivetrain. The experience is further enhanced by bringing the V8's unmistakable aural properties into the cabin to even more arresting effect. The car also turns into corners with noticeably greater directness and precision on account of the extra stiffness in the mounts.

New dampers for the BMW M5 Competition.
The BMW M5 Competition has a specially tuned and even stiffer chassis, and now also benefits from experience gained in the development of the new BMW M8 Gran Coupé, whose shock absorbers have been carried over. The damper control system was adapted accordingly and fully recalibrated, which has led to an increase in comfort in high-speed motorway
driving, in particular. Bumps and ruts in the road surface are passed through the body – and therefore to the passengers – to a far lesser degree.
And this is achieved without blunting the car's sporting edge and precision at high or low speeds. In fact, reduced fluctuations in wheel loads have resulted in significantly improved handling at the limit. And that means even more intuitive driveability in everyday use and better handling on the track.

Ride height lowered by seven millimetres; 20-inch wheels.
The BMW M5 Competition rides seven millimetres lower to the ground than the BMW M5 and includes other well-conceived tweaks to the suspension
and springs. The increased camber at the front axle enhances the car's ability to absorb lateral forces through high-speed corners. Fitting the toe links
with ball joints instead of rubber mounts has resulted in even more precise wheel guidance at the rear axle. And the rear anti-roll bar also has a firmer
spring rate, causing the body roll that occurs through high-speed corners to be distributed with a pronounced rear bias. The modified mounting for the
front-axle anti-roll bar combines with ten per cent stiffer springs at the front and rear axles to produce a firmer ride, which also has a positive impact on
steering response. Plus, shorter auxiliary springs reduce fluctuation in wheel loads. The BMW M5 Competition is fitted with forged, bi-colour, 20-inch
M light-alloy wheels in Y-spoke design (front: 9.5 J x 20, rear: 10.5 J x 20) and mixed-size tyres (front: 275/35 R 20, rear: 285/35 R 20).

M5 CS spec ....

Bespoke engine mounts and track-ready oil supply.
The BMW M5 CS is fitted with the engine mounts used in the BMW M5 Competition. These are stiffer than those in the BMW M5, with a spring rate of 900 N/mm (compared with 580 N/mm in the non-Competition M5). The drive unit's firmer connection to the car's structure is clearly perceptible, resulting in even more rapid engine response and immediate transmission
of its power to the drivetrain. The V8 engine – adorned by a bespoke
BMW M Power cover made from exposed carbon fibre and bearing a full-colour M logo – works with optimised turbochargers and has maximum
injection pressure of 350 bar. This allows shorter injection times and improved atomisation of fuel, for faster engine response as well as more efficient
mixture preparation. Improvements have also been made to lubrication and cooling, including an oil pan with a small front sump and an indirect charge
air cooling system, which is extremely effective despite taking up little space. The oil supply system uses a fully variable, map-controlled pump and has
been designed for outings on the race track, where it can handle very high levels of longitudinal and lateral acceleration.

Fine-tuning and adjusting the car to work with track tyres.
The new BMW M5 CS builds on the chassis of the BMW M5 Competition –already a stiffer version of the standard BMW M5's following judicious modifications to the springs, suspension and anti-roll bars – and features a seven-millimetre drop in ride height plus shock absorbers developed for the BMW M8 Gran Coupé. As well as bringing added comfort to the driving experience – particularly on high-speed motorway journeys – these dampers also reduce fluctuation in wheel loads, greatly improving on-the-limit handling. The result is even more precise responses under hard driving on the track,
while the car's intuitive driveability in everyday use is preserved. The BMW M specialists have retuned the bearing springs at the front and rear axle of the
BMW M5 CS and also refined damper control. These measures take account of the lower vehicle weight and the tyres' increased performance potential
and are designed to optimise the car's dynamics. The BMW M5 CS rides as standard on ultra-sporty mixed-size Pirelli P Zero Corsa track tyres measuring
275/35 R 20 at the front and 285/35 R 20 at the rear, which are fitted to 20-inch M forged wheels in Y-spoke design (front: 9.5 J x 20, rear: 10.5 J x 20) with a Goldbronze finish.

Thanks for the documents TJ. I notice the date for the M5C is dated June 2020. I assume these are LCI changes.

[tjlees]

Originally Posted by AHall

Thanks for the documents TJ. I notice the date for the M5C is dated June 2020. I assume these are LCI changes.

Yes also worth noting that the weight difference is <£50kg if you option the ceramics and y spoke alloys on the M5C.

Like the look of the carbon bonnet and carbon testicle holder seats as well. I think someone here has already done the seat retrofit, and like the M2 CS carbon oem bonnet, I'm expecting the same for the M5. This should give another 30kg saving.

I'd be interested in the weighted wheel alignment settings for the M5 CS and any other 'recalibration' settings that can be changed on M5C.

[choppedliver]

Originally Posted by tjlees

I think the M5 CS is a definite improvement over the M5C in the handling department if I believe the reviews.

However on track, the M5C is a beast! it maybe numb handling while on a public road, but once the front is loaded at near limit of grip it comes into its own. also takes the brutal curbs at Llandow with ease.

Hardly a surprise the M550i is faster around the track than a RS6.

[babaikram]

Originally Posted by Used2be

No, I'm saying that reviewers in general tend to give new cars the benefit of the doubt. I'm not in the market for a M5CS and haven't read reviews of it. I have no idea if the reviews are right or wrong. I hope the reviewers pushed the car on the track to feel the benefit of the engineering that's gone into it. I wasn't criticizing the CS, just the way it was compared to another car by driving them on the street.

Thanks for the reply. Please read the reviews.. It has been tested on tracks and on streets with other cars and came out on top.

[ABenLauda]

Originally Posted by TheBlackKnight

Carbon Bucket seats, 4 of them, people gladly pay 4k of just 2 in a 911 GT3

To be fair, the "carbon buckets" in the M5CS (and G8X) are mostly for show. They save almost no weight (Bryan from Kies Motorsports has a video saying that it only felt about 3 lbs lighter than his non-comp F80 seats). They do almost nothing to save weight whereas Porsche GT buckets do save a lot of weight (no motors, ass heaters or the gimmicky CF banana hammock).

[tjlees]

Car marketing departments have realised we like carbon to make us feel as though we are sporty, strong and light ....

The slip on carbon m-performance gas/petrol cap is my particular favorite- it actually adds weight

[malrash]

Originally Posted by ABenChod

To be fair, the "carbon buckets" in the M5CS (and G8X) are mostly for show. They save almost no weight (Bryan from Kies Motorsports has a video saying that it only felt about 3 lbs lighter than his non-comp F80 seats). They do almost nothing to save weight whereas Porsche GT buckets do save a lot of weight (no motors, ass heaters or the gimmicky CF banana hammock).

Love your username…..I’m sure you know it’s meaning and hope you don’t have any sisters lol

If that is true, difference of 3lb between the Cf and regular M5 sofas, I’m sure some of us would want to swap to the sofas if the Cf seats aren’t a good fit for one’s body type.

[AmooManiak]

Guys, that's how it always is - just look at the Iphone which year after year IS a little better, but if you compare the overall package it's about 99% the same. If you gave each example to 80% of the population, they wouldn't know the difference unless you pointed it out. Small progressive steps. Without them, people would not continue to buy the product.

"Newer, better, buy buy buy!" There is not a huge difference between the M5 vs M5C vs M5CS - certainly not big enough during daily driving. To top it off, the CS actually takes steps back what the M5 is actually supposed to be - an executive luxury sedan that's fast and not a track car like an M2CS. Who in their right mind really wants to toss a 2k+ ton car around the track when there are much better/smaller cars that are suited for it and give you a better sense of speed?

Reviewers have a job. Do you think they would get clicks or car magazines would sell if they were saying "This car is the same as before, suspension is 5% softer and the tires are better. You get carbon fiber but you lose many luxury features. Pay premium!" We all buy the product that's available at that point in time. They will not make it worse, they will just make it slightly better to push that buyer who was on the edge and incentivise a new sale.

If you have an M5C and you think the M5 is much different - you are wrong. Same with the CS guys who think their car is much different than the other two.