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      11-23-2021, 06:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by FSHNGRY View Post
OP, First off, I'm terribly sorry about the experience you've had with buying a BMW (not your first I see). I do however, agree with a lot of the points mentioned in your post, except on a much larger scale.

It seems as though "customer service" as a whole has either been put on hold, forgotten entirely, or straight up ignored by virtually ALL salesmen.

I remember a time when a potential buyer would walk into a jewelry store, car dealership, an open house to see a potential home, etc., and you would be catered to. I'm not talking about red carpet "let me wash your car for you sir" treatment. Instead, it was an attitude and tone from anyone who was excited at your interest to purchase something from their location/dealership. You were treated with respect, hell you'd even get a bottle of water, coffee or snack at most places you'd be willing to shell out 6 figures for a "toy"

Nowadays? you hit it on the head. "Be thankful I'm even listening to your request to take your hard earned pennies and give them to me. I'll consider it. " mentality. When the hell did this become the norm for business practice? I'm not sure about you OP, or anyone else on here who may read this, but I for one, have become exhausted, and quite angry by the expectations of the world now. The way i've learned, and watched throughout my years before being able to play in this game, IS NOT how the game is played now. And sadly, it seems as though this toxic way of doing business/treating a customer is everywhere.

Be patient OP. Things will eventually go back to normal. A car salesman will always be that. A car salesman. We will see the days again when car dealerships have more inventory then they can stomach, and we'll all go back to making an offer, and getting the F up out of there only for them to beg us to come back and take it.

Best of luck to you and your wife, sorry to hear about the nightmare experience
Thanks for the post and I agree with everything you said. Customer service and just respect in general has been tarnished. In times like these true colors come out. I have been fortunate to find a much better dealer that so far has created a great experience. I actually put a deposit on a X7M50I a few hours prior to when BMW was able to find allocation for me and called them with the two allocations. For that they will be getting my future business. I am one person so will not make or break a dealer but word gets around and if they are treating me that way they are treating others. Actually I know they are, I have received PM's from individuals that have had the same negative experience with this dealer and now are passing this dealer on the way to drive an hour to the one I am working with now.

It was nice that BMW NA made an effort to do something though, I will buy another M5 one day because of it just already put a deposit down on a Porsche when this happened so it will have to be another day.
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      11-27-2021, 07:03 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by FSHNGRY View Post
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Originally Posted by micvite View Post
So... let me tl;Dr this for everyone:

You sold your old car with no idea as to when you're getting a new one and you're blaming the company, not the terrible dealer.
You're combining about features being removed and production being pushed back over 3 months which would mean you had a production date estimated for 3 months ago, and instead of realizing your dealership lied their ass off to you, you still blame BMW that had nothing to do with it... (and fyi, my m5 which just arrived at the port has b&w, Order placed in August, production date of Oct 6) the m5s only got moved back for some people with later production dates if they were adamant on keeping b&w in which case bmw moved back production to see if they could add it back on. Others have opted to remove b&w and are now expecting their car or have even gotten theirs.

I'm honestly hoping the ceo returns your "I don't wanna be a bmw customer anymore" with a "we don't want customers like you" as one manufacturer famously said in the past. You did end up realizing the dealership you're dealing with is terrible and yet here you are trying to blame people that have nothing to do with it... I wouldn't be surprised if the dealership just wanted you our of their hair to sell those cars to someone else with a nice mark-up assuming you got a decent deal on them. Sad to say, but not every dealership is created equal. I was able to retain all my m5 features, even add options not on the VIA (carbon fiber bits, including kidney grilles which are limited in stock), get a confirmed production date (they had to trade with a dealership in Iowa when bmw decided to pull one of their allocations which was supposed to be mine, initially a week 39 production, they managed to find me a week 40 instead) if your dealer wanted you to have a car and wanted you as a customer they'd have made it happen, it's not hard to find a car that's either spelled the way you want, or at least a production slot that they could trade with someone else to move your car forward. My best guess is they didn't even have a slot for you and they kept pushing things back in hopes bmw gave them one. And if you want to confirm anything I said, talk to bmw on Twitter and they'll work with you to figure stuff out.

OP, First off, I'm terribly sorry about the experience you've had with buying a BMW (not your first I see). I do however, agree with a lot of the points mentioned in your post, except on a much larger scale.

It seems as though "customer service" as a whole has either been put on hold, forgotten entirely, or straight up ignored by virtually ALL salesmen.

I remember a time when a potential buyer would walk into a jewelry store, car dealership, an open house to see a potential home, etc., and you would be catered to. I'm not talking about red carpet "let me wash your car for you sir" treatment. Instead, it was an attitude and tone from anyone who was excited at your interest to purchase something from their location/dealership. You were treated with respect, hell you'd even get a bottle of water, coffee or snack at most places you'd be willing to shell out 6 figures for a "toy"

Nowadays? you hit it on the head. "Be thankful I'm even listening to your request to take your hard earned pennies and give them to me. I'll consider it. " mentality. When the hell did this become the norm for business practice? I'm not sure about you OP, or anyone else on here who may read this, but I for one, have become exhausted, and quite angry by the expectations of the world now. The way i've learned, and watched throughout my years before being able to play in this game, IS NOT how the game is played now. And sadly, it seems as though this toxic way of doing business/treating a customer is everywhere.

Be patient OP. Things will eventually go back to normal. A car salesman will always be that. A car salesman. We will see the days again when car dealerships have more inventory then they can stomach, and we'll all go back to making an offer, and getting the F up out of there only for them to beg us to come back and take it.

Best of luck to you and your wife, sorry to hear about the nightmare experience
Amen. I couldn't agree with you more. If service sucks, I walk away from any deal or purchase.

Maybe it's a generational thing.
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      11-29-2021, 02:06 PM   #47
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bmw dealerships have been going downhill for several years now. with the pandemic and the shortages they basically don't give a shit about walk ins. in these kinds of difficult times you basically need a "guy" who knows how to get shit done. I have one guy for bmw and I have another guy for my porsches. I call, shit gets done, and the car is in my driveway sort of thing.

for example my 911 I called to inquire about allocations and he said he just got in a barely used one and fully loaded. but there was a deposit from a walk in customer. next thing I know I'm signing the paperwork on it and I take delivery a few days later.

if you want someone who will truly help you with bmws pm me and i'll give you his contact info.
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      12-03-2021, 07:57 PM   #48
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Not gonna lie, but ever your TL;DR summary was TL;DR

So true.
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      12-03-2021, 08:12 PM   #49
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I don't mean to sound apathetic or disrespectful, but I don't think anyone cares. BMW has become an average, everyday, normal brand. Every middle class person can afford a BMW. It is not exclusive. There are so many BMW's sold throughout the world. And, now there are very few cars available.

Also, car manufacturers like BMW do not want to get involved with dealer's activities. They let the dealers do whatever they want. I tried to reach BMW about an issue with my order, and they would not even talk to me. They said, "there is no one here to help you. You have to talk to the dealer."

If you want to be treated like they care about you, you will need to find another dealer. And another brand that is more exclusive may help as well. It's not personal. It's just the way the world is now.

By the way, I did have a similar experience as you. I ordered from my "local" dealer and they were completely incompetent. I waited 10 weeks to find out that nothing had gotten done (and no order with allocation). Apparently they did not know how to do an Individual order, or care to tell me that they could not do it.

So, I started calling the highest rated dealers in the country. I went down the list, one by one. And some of the people I spoke to make my skin crawl. Some were so incompetent, even my wife was mocking them. It was clear they didn't even know what an Individual order was.

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Originally Posted by tnutt19 View Post
I am not sure if anyone from corporate monitors these forums or takes feedback. After enduring what has been the worst buying experience of my life I just had to cancel my M5 competition and X5 M50I. I have been a long time BMW enthusiast, owner and loyal family member. I currently own a 2017 Alpina B7 and owned a 2017 X5 50I but sold it when I had a "confirmed" production date to replace it which was anything but confirmed despite the promises that confirmed was set in stone. This was not going to be my first M5 either. After settling over and over again to remove options from the X5 and being told over and over again they are options "I do not really need".. Those are not the same sales tactics that were taken when I bought my M5, B7 or last X5 or any of the other cars I have owned from BMW, that I can promise. I hit an impasse though this week that was the straw that finally broke the camels back. I was patient with the "confirmed" production date for both cars getting delayed over and over to where the M5 has been moved back over 3 months and is still stated as tentative. I was patient with my wife being stuck with out a car causing her to drive mine since I was told the production date for the X5 was set in stone so we sold her X5. I was patient with the many options that had to be removed that we enjoyed in our last X5 like soft close doors, wireless charging and more. I was patient having to be the one bringing to the dealer anytime there was a reason to believe the dates may be delayed and getting told I am being influenced by a forum of people that have no idea what they are talking about, each time materialized to be delays though. My rep came to me 2 weeks after I told him of the coming delay due to B&W and acted like a hero letting me know he found it was being delayed due to B&W, the same thing he said I was crazy for believing a forum. He told me stories of delivering cars to individuals and at delivery finding out there were many features missing from HUD to power seats. Did not exactly instill confidence that I could trust him to be on top of my two cars. So when i brought to him touch screen being removed and got the same response until he checked his inbox and found many emails on the matter that was problematic. My X5 that 2 weeks prior I made a concession to drop B&W with a promise it would go straight to product and not lose more features was now losing back up assistant and touch screen and he was not going to tell me about it. My wife used touch screen everyday in her X5 and uses it in my Alpina that she is now driving due to her car being sold. I tried to work with him saying that this would be a deal breaker but if we could confirm what the problem really is so I can verify i can retrofit it I would take delivery of the car. I was fed contradicting information from him and his GM that clearly showed they do not understand Idrive and were blowing smoke. I am likely the only person in the country that has taken an NBT from a 2015 M5 and retrofitted to EVO with the 4G ATM and got it activated. That unit I could plug in touch screen or non touch and both work. I explained this to them that either it is a simple replacement of hardware otherwise there is something else they are not sharing that is causing the issue and if they could confirm that would allow me to know how to solve. They literally came back and said "It is a hardware issue, not a software issue so is not possible to retrofit". Circles were run with me asking for them to be precise in what hardware change since they said it was not just the touch screen but with emails shared from corporate included would not share details. I finally told them it is not my job to fix their problems so since they wanted to continue with lies and contradictions they can resolve or I would be passing on the car. They responded that they took my name off the car and then asked if I still wanted the M5??? Seriously?? After months of patiently waiting and all the treatment that was their response, they were going to their waitlist. The sales rep and I went back and forth for 3 weeks waiting on B&W according his suggestion to see if it cleared up. If B&W was a big deal why would they think I am ok removing more features. Corporate knew about this touch screen issue when they verified if we dropped B&W they would go right to production and decided to hold that detail back and sneak it on, pushing it on to the consumer. My dealer was complicit in blaming corporate and stating it is all their fault and they can not help me, yet they threw me aside since they have a nice long waitlist due to lack of inventory. So I cancelled both cars officially and told them if that was the route they were pushing me too I would be leaving the brand indefinitely. I received an impersonal email telling me to let them know if I ever changed my mind and then text messages from the sales rep saying I have bad information and essentially I needed to stop listening to the forums. Seriously, we were still arguing about if my information was accurate, that was his take away, wake up BMW!

This is a consolidated version of my terrible experience, I am not complaining about having an unofficial date for my M5, I am/ was fine waiting. I am not ok though with being treated like a dog, like I am lucky to be buying a BMW and should be ok being treated terribly and thank them. removing features and not telling customers, making them figure it out at delivery.. really?! I understand supply chain issues but you have to stop blaming all your terrible behavior and shortcomings on your supply chain. We the customers are no dummies, we work in production, tech, product development, shipping and more and know the issues you are facing. Ironically I am in ASIA right now working on product development and supply chain issues. Part shortages due to the many reasons they occur and how you run your business and treat the customer are two very different things.

I have sent an email to the CEO and hope someone in his office takes my email serious and offers up a solution. Honestly my treatment has been so poor I am anxious to first hear if they care, next if they want to resolve and 3rd their ideas of how they correct such a terrible experience from a loyal BMW family member.

If they do not correct then as soon as I can get my wife a new car ill be selling my Alpina B7 and F10 M5 and will sadly leave the family for life. I am as loyal as they come but am principal minded and will not tolerate this treatment. The dealership is blaming corporate saying it is all corporate and they are saints and amazing and I should feel blessed to be able to be considered to by a car from their dealership, what does BMW have to say about this?

I will update if I get a response and pray and hope that you all are having better experiences than me. I am so disappointed, my wife and I were very excited for our new cars. Buying a BMW use to be an amazing process, you felt like family, you felt special, like you mattered and got the butterflies of excitement. This has been anything but that.
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      01-01-2022, 03:02 PM   #50
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I didn't read all of it because it sounds like you just went to a shitty dealer. I live in PHX too, and I know all the dealers and my experience has been;

BMW North Scottsdale : Douchebags because they're penske, never buy from PAG. Only the Ferrari dealer treats you like a human. The Porsche dealer is easily the worst I've ever worked with.

Chapman BMW in central PHX - I have friends who work here so I always get treated well.

Chapman BMW in Chandler - They don't really get many allocations of the M cars it seems.

Arrowhead BMW - I got my M5 CS for MSRP. They always treat me well and bend over backwards for all my absurd requests. Secondary cat delete installed on my M5CS? Sure no problem. Full concierge service with one armor to get the entire thing PPF'd and Ceramic coated? Yup.

Victory BMW in Chandler/Gilbert - Unknown. Are these the guys that were screwing with you? Why would you protect their name?

I hated porsche dealers but it was really just Porsche north scottsdale being complete assholes. Never try to get a turbo S allocation from them, they'll screw around with you for years and never sell you one.
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      01-01-2022, 03:18 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by x622 View Post
I didn't read all of it because it sounds like you just went to a shitty dealer. I live in PHX too, and I know all the dealers and my experience has been;

BMW North Scottsdale : Douchebags because they're penske, never buy from PAG. Only the Ferrari dealer treats you like a human. The Porsche dealer is easily the worst I've ever worked with.

Chapman BMW in central PHX - I have friends who work here so I always get treated well.

Chapman BMW in Chandler - They don't really get many allocations of the M cars it seems.

Arrowhead BMW - I got my M5 CS for MSRP. They always treat me well and bend over backwards for all my absurd requests. Secondary cat delete installed on my M5CS? Sure no problem. Full concierge service with one armor to get the entire thing PPF'd and Ceramic coated? Yup.

Victory BMW in Chandler/Gilbert - Unknown. Are these the guys that were screwing with you? Why would you protect their name?

I hated porsche dealers but it was really just Porsche north scottsdale being complete assholes. Never try to get a turbo S allocation from them, they'll screw around with you for years and never sell you one.
Honestly, everyone is going to have different experiences with each dealership.

I got my M3CS from Chapman on Camelback. It was pretty easy and a good deal. But, when I tried to get the Z4 and X7 they were horrible. Mainly because the sales kid kept saying what he thought we wanted to hear and not the actual truth.

I got my M5CS (at MSRP) from North Scottsdale. I've been getting cars from them all the way back to when they were on Camelback. Never had a single bad experience and always get treated extremely well. Already on the list for the G80 M3CS with them and have the first slot. Only reason I went to Chapman is because they had the M3CS on the lot for nearly 6 months and the deal was too good to pass up.

Scottsdale Ferrari is fine to work with.

You nailed it on the head with Porsche NS though. Did 2 cars from them. A C4S and then a turbo cab. My buddy actually buys from Porsche Tucson because they are easier to work with.
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      01-12-2022, 07:18 AM   #52
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BMW corporate will only deal with serious product issues and things that will embarrass the brand. For everything else they refer you to their independent dealer network. They are not responsible actions or not in control of their dealer network. They can intervene in some areas but it’s unusual.

I purchased a new M3 from a Florida dealer. Had it shipped to NY. When it arrived it has over 100 miles on it. I was told they were test drive miles so I was pissed and given some $ off for my aggravation. Some weeks later a bulb went in one of the fog lights. Took the car in for oil change and bulb. I was told bulbs are not covered on pre owned vehicles. I said it’s new. Well it was registered in Florida previously. My title said new so there was some kind of fraud at the dealer.

Called dealer letting them know they sold a used car as new. They basically said no we did not and said pound sand. I called BMW NA in NJ and provided proof and they asked dealer to provide paperwork to the contrary.

I ended up getting a 100,000 mile BMW warranty from the dealer at no charge for agreeing to keep the car and not pursue any legal action against the dealer. There was a ton of fraud. This was 1988 and I should have pressed for a new car. I was young and just happy to be able to get my hands on an E30 M3 period. I’m sorry I ever sold it.
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      02-12-2022, 06:12 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by x622 View Post
I didn't read all of it because it sounds like you just went to a shitty dealer. I live in PHX too, and I know all the dealers and my experience has been;

BMW North Scottsdale : Douchebags because they're penske, never buy from PAG. Only the Ferrari dealer treats you like a human. The Porsche dealer is easily the worst I've ever worked with.

Chapman BMW in central PHX - I have friends who work here so I always get treated well.

Chapman BMW in Chandler - They don't really get many allocations of the M cars it seems.

Arrowhead BMW - I got my M5 CS for MSRP. They always treat me well and bend over backwards for all my absurd requests. Secondary cat delete installed on my M5CS? Sure no problem. Full concierge service with one armor to get the entire thing PPF'd and Ceramic coated? Yup.

Victory BMW in Chandler/Gilbert - Unknown. Are these the guys that were screwing with you? Why would you protect their name?

I hated porsche dealers but it was really just Porsche north scottsdale being complete assholes. Never try to get a turbo S allocation from them, they'll screw around with you for years and never sell you one.
You nailed it. I will never work with Scottsdale BMW again. Chapman in Chandler came in and made it a really great experience. We took delivery of my Wifes x7M50I 2 1/2 weeks ago and could not be happier.
I actually cancelled my Cayenne GTS that was going to delivery in June (read the new one is announcing same time so wasnt wanting to spend 150k when it would be no longer the newest one at delivery). I
BMW NA actually gave allocations to Chapman at my request (they lest me chose any dealer I wanted) for both a new X5 M50I and M5 competition. At this time though I passed on the M5 and the dealer had already worked with me to expedite a X7 before this came through so I passed on them both and they were able to use still. So when I cancelled the Porsche they started looking for allocation and it so happened they had allocation for a 23 M8 GC that goes into production next week so Friday night I customized it just before the cut off and it already shows scheduled for production.

I started this thread upset with very poor treatment, which it was. The dealer lied to me at every turn and missed the mark completely. BMW did step up though and Chapman has stepped up to be everything I could hope for. I commend BMW NA for stepping up and am happy I found a dealer that works better for me. The experience was so good picking up I wanted to do it again so will be doing it again soon with the M8.

As for Porsche Scottsdale, yea they are terrible. I was dealing with Chandler Porsche and they were much better. Porsche Scottsdale told me they had no allocation and the waitlist for Cayenne and 911 were being bid on starting at 40k over msrp. No worries it wasnt the right fit and I tip my hat to them they have that kind of clientele lining up.
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      02-12-2022, 06:14 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by jsf721 View Post
BMW corporate will only deal with serious product issues and things that will embarrass the brand. For everything else they refer you to their independent dealer network. They are not responsible actions or not in control of their dealer network. They can intervene in some areas but it’s unusual.

I purchased a new M3 from a Florida dealer. Had it shipped to NY. When it arrived it has over 100 miles on it. I was told they were test drive miles so I was pissed and given some $ off for my aggravation. Some weeks later a bulb went in one of the fog lights. Took the car in for oil change and bulb. I was told bulbs are not covered on pre owned vehicles. I said it’s new. Well it was registered in Florida previously. My title said new so there was some kind of fraud at the dealer.

Called dealer letting them know they sold a used car as new. They basically said no we did not and said pound sand. I called BMW NA in NJ and provided proof and they asked dealer to provide paperwork to the contrary.

I ended up getting a 100,000 mile BMW warranty from the dealer at no charge for agreeing to keep the car and not pursue any legal action against the dealer. There was a ton of fraud. This was 1988 and I should have pressed for a new car. I was young and just happy to be able to get my hands on an E30 M3 period. I’m sorry I ever sold it.
What a story! Beautiful car! Car dealerships pull stuff like this all the time, getting harder for them to do so though with technology making it easier for us to see history. I went through litigation with a used car dealer a few years back that bought a 550 at auction and sold it as clean car fax. Turned out he was buying them damaged, fixing them and then presenting car fax before it updated. I prevailed after 2 years of litigation. It also helped that I called over 100 auction houses until I found the one he bought it from and got the proof I needed.
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      02-15-2022, 04:07 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnutt19 View Post
You nailed it. I will never work with Scottsdale BMW again. Chapman in Chandler came in and made it a really great experience. We took delivery of my Wifes x7M50I 2 1/2 weeks ago and could not be happier.
I actually cancelled my Cayenne GTS that was going to delivery in June (read the new one is announcing same time so wasnt wanting to spend 150k when it would be no longer the newest one at delivery). I
BMW NA actually gave allocations to Chapman at my request (they lest me chose any dealer I wanted) for both a new X5 M50I and M5 competition. At this time though I passed on the M5 and the dealer had already worked with me to expedite a X7 before this came through so I passed on them both and they were able to use still. So when I cancelled the Porsche they started looking for allocation and it so happened they had allocation for a 23 M8 GC that goes into production next week so Friday night I customized it just before the cut off and it already shows scheduled for production.

I started this thread upset with very poor treatment, which it was. The dealer lied to me at every turn and missed the mark completely. BMW did step up though and Chapman has stepped up to be everything I could hope for. I commend BMW NA for stepping up and am happy I found a dealer that works better for me. The experience was so good picking up I wanted to do it again so will be doing it again soon with the M8.

As for Porsche Scottsdale, yea they are terrible. I was dealing with Chandler Porsche and they were much better. Porsche Scottsdale told me they had no allocation and the waitlist for Cayenne and 911 were being bid on starting at 40k over msrp. No worries it wasnt the right fit and I tip my hat to them they have that kind of clientele lining up.

Did you work with Ali per chance? He knows his stuff when it comes to M's and most BMWs. Sold me my X5m and I love it. I'm in for another when the time comes.
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      03-24-2022, 11:33 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x622 View Post
Did you work with Ali per chance? He knows his stuff when it comes to M's and most BMWs. Sold me my X5m and I love it. I'm in for another when the time comes.
I did not, I have worked with several people at Chapman though and all have been great. The GM put me in touch with two different people for each car.
M8 GC sitting at port in Germany for 3 weeks now, fingers crossed it gets loaded soon.
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      05-19-2022, 12:29 PM   #57
tnutt19
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Status update. Took delivery of the M8 GC just over a week ago and could not be happier.
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