HELP! 17 X5M with 52k miles Complete Engine Failure

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by MBoss_F86

I used redline 0W30 engine oil. I liked it so going to redline oils for diffs, Transfer case and transmission service

Nice...

In hindsight, I might have more seriously considered the Red Line oils for everything. At the time when I changed out all of my fluids, I was concerned about the warranty police and I heard that the OEM oils were good/great (Especially the Life Guard tranny oil) so I used them. Plus there was so much banter back and forth on here about which diff oils to use and all that, I stuck with what I could articulate to my indy.

If I keep my M and make it to another future all-fluid change, it will be Red Line for sure.

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by musa

"It should be okay" = "It's probably fine" = "It ought to be fine" = "I'm making an assumption that it's most likely going to be OK." = " I really don't know and can't tell you with confidence." = "I don't have all the facts. Take what I'm telling you with a pinch of salt." = "Take what I tell you at your own risk. Don't blame me later. Verify the facts yourself".

I hear you!

The guy is amazing and he was the now retired shop foreman's right hand man/second in command. When I heard him say that, I was like okay... And of course I didn't have it in writing, so even though I figured he was correct it's my engine.

Good chance I'll just stick with the Red Line 0W30 LL01-FE even in the warmer months. If I notice any issues with higher engine temps at a track day or something, maybe consider the Motul Sport 5W40.

But despite all the banter about these engines needing thicker oil, I have a feeling that will not happen. We'll see...

[musa]

Originally Posted by bimmerfeverny

Wrong filter, ox353/7 is for 50i ox353/6 for the M

Wow, keen eye there! You're indeed correct. We were all saying BMW was bullshitting when they pointed out that the filter was after-market.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4185

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_5927

[bmwx5er]

Fcpeuro says otherwise

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...7d#description

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by bmwx5er

Fcpeuro says otherwise

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...7d#description

The /6 & /7 look identical when comparing side by side in person (other then the M logo) and most likely are however when it comes to the fact that BMW could easily deny a warranty claim on the filter alone, best not to take the chance. Another ding against the dealer for installing an n63 oil filter on the s63....that is unless BMW wants to come out and admit that only difference between the two is the logo and extra ///M tax...wrong oil, wrong filter....

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by bmwx5er

Fcpeuro says otherwise

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...7d#description

Where?

OX3537DECO
BMW Engine Oil Filter Kit - Mahle OX353-7D
550i, 550i GT, 550i GT xDrive, 550i xDrive, & more

[bmwx5er]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

Where?

OX3537DECO
BMW Engine Oil Filter Kit - Mahle OX353-7D
550i, 550i GT, 550i GT xDrive, 550i xDrive, & more

Look under "Fitment"

[bmwx5er]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

The /6 & /7 look identical when comparing side by side in person (other then the M logo) and most likely are however when it comes to the fact that BMW could easily deny a warranty claim on the filter alone, best not to take the chance. Another ding against the dealer for installing an n63 oil filter....that is unless BMW wants to come out and admit that only difference between the two is the logo and extra ///M tax...

This filter is an OE equivalent (the ///M filter p/n is listed), so BMW cannot deny a warranty claim on account of that per Magnuson-Moss. They can, however, deny goodwill coverage.

The dealer is at fault for the oil, not the filter in this case.

[88bimmer]

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...iABEgKI0PD_BwE


I had both n63 and s63 the filter are not the same, if you look fitment under change to 50i it said does not fit

[Chilled]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

The /6 & /7 look identical when comparing side by side in person (other then the M logo) and most likely are however when it comes to the fact that BMW could easily deny a warranty claim on the filter alone, best not to take the chance. Another ding against the dealer for installing an n63 oil filter on the s63....that is unless BMW wants to come out and admit that only difference between the two is the logo and extra ///M tax...wrong oil, wrong filter....

This, just because it fits, does not mean that what BMW intended. If they want to deny your warranty because you used the generic filter, and non //M they have the right to.

At that you point you can take it up with ECS/FCP as to why they falsely state that it is a suitable part, but good luck on getting a new engine out of them. That's probably what happened during the pre-purchase inspection, and now that dealer is on the hook.

The //M p/n: 11427848321 only fits into M. BMW (not talking about fcp/ecs) don't list it as a compatible filter for 50i.

Bottom line is, if you have warranty, don't fuck with it, just buy as per spec.

[Autobacs]

The previous owner of my E70 X5M ran 10W-60 oil from about 45K-65K miles when I bought it. Two BMW reputable Independent shops I consulted had opposite opinions, one saying it's bad for the engine, the other saying nothing to worry about. I switched to OW-40 LL01 compatible since and it's been running like a champ for 20K miles since I got it. I also know the previous owner ran it hard that he got a new transmission and turbos on them before I purchased it.

My point being that even if 10W-60 is bad for the S63, there had to be other circumstances aside from the oil that caused this catastrophic failure.

Best of Luck to the OP to resolving this.

[bmwx5er]

Originally Posted by Chilled

This, just because it fits, does not mean that what BMW intended. If they want to deny your warranty because you used the generic filter, and non //M they have the right to.

At that you point you can take it up with ECS/FCP as to why they falsely state that it is a suitable part, but good luck on getting a new engine out of them. That's probably what happened during the pre-purchase inspection, and now that dealer is on the hook.

The //M p/n: 11427848321 only fits into M. BMW (not talking about fcp/ecs) don't list it as a compatible filter for 50i.

Bottom line is, if you have warranty, don't fuck with it, just buy as per spec.

Except they can't in the USA. That's what Magnuson-Moss Act is for.

https://www.autocare.org/government-...s-Warranty-Act

FCP is not wrong. MAHLE lists this one as the OE replacement for both the 50i & M, plus several other cars.


https://web.tecalliance.net/mahle-ca...%252F7D/detail

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by bmwx5er

Except they can't in the USA. That's what Magnuson-Moss Act is for.

https://www.autocare.org/government-...s-Warranty-Act

FCP is not wrong. MAHLE lists this one as the OE replacement for both the 50i & M, plus several other cars.


https://web.tecalliance.net/mahle-ca...%252F7D/detail

Fantastic and makes a lot of sense.

[JMAN1111]

It's the same filter 🤣🤷*♂️

[edycol]

OP, I am sorry what happened to you, but let me chime in here about oil.
BMW has every legal right to deny any cost sharing since 10W60 was used and not LL01 or LL01 FE (which I would avoid like a plague, but will come to that later as why).
However, oil is not responsible. Any engine can run on thick oil. You cold start sometime has oil 200x thicker than at operating temperature. Yes, 10W60 is not optimal for various reasons (loss of performance, mpg, more heat) but unless you redline it for 20 minutes at 0 degrees after car spent two nights outside, it is not that.
My take is that engine was neglected before, and BMW did not help by switching to LL01 FE oils.
Rod bearings are an issue on some BMW's, especially N54/55 when oil pump is not primed after OFHG replacement. On top of that, there is evidence of rod bearings failing since introduction of LL01FE oils.
BMW, like other companies, switched to lower HTHS oils to bump CAFE compliance. But these engines and others in BMW line up are really designed with minimum HTHS of 3.5cp. LL01 FE are usually around 3.1cp and IMO, for S63 HTHS of 3.6-4 is optimal. That is what matters (I wrote about this extensively in M2 and F80 forums).
In S63 probably best oil one can use is Castrol Edge 0W40 (it doesn't have anymore LL01. Long story, again I explained in details in those subforums). As for some oils mentioned here, let me clarify some things.
Motul 5W40 Sport is NOT LL01 compliant nor it is compliant to any other approval. It is track oil which means higher oxidation than what manufacturers like.
Redline 0W30 is also not very good solution. It is also ester based oil and has high oxidation. If LL01 is imperative, Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2 is very good oil, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, etc.
However, those out of warranty Castrol Edge 0W40 is best bet.
I wouldn't be surprised this engine was either on LL01 FE or even on ILSAC GF oils and then was abused.
10W60 didn't kill this engine. It could be that it pushed it over the edge. There was already a problem and this oil was what it needed to die.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by edycol

OP, I am sorry what happened to you, but let me chime in here about oil.
BMW has every legal right to deny any cost sharing since 10W60 was used and not LL01 or LL01 FE (which I would avoid like a plague, but will come to that later as why).
However, oil is not responsible. Any engine can run on thick oil. You cold start sometime has oil 200x thicker than at operating temperature. Yes, 10W60 is not optimal for various reasons (loss of performance, mpg, more heat) but unless you redline it for 20 minutes at 0 degrees after car spent two nights outside, it is not that.
My take is that engine was neglected before, and BMW did not help by switching to LL01 FE oils.
Rod bearings are an issue on some BMW's, especially N54/55 when oil pump is not primed after OFHG replacement. On top of that, there is evidence of rod bearings failing since introduction of LL01FE oils.
BMW, like other companies, switched to lower HTHS oils to bump CAFE compliance. But these engines and others in BMW line up are really designed with minimum HTHS of 3.5cp. LL01 FE are usually around 3.1cp and IMO, for S63 HTHS of 3.6-4 is optimal. That is what matters (I wrote about this extensively in M2 and F80 forums).
In S63 probably best oil one can use is Castrol Edge 0W40 (it doesn't have anymore LL01. Long story, again I explained in details in those subforums). As for some oils mentioned here, let me clarify some things.
Motul 5W40 Sport is NOT LL01 compliant nor it is compliant to any other approval. It is track oil which means higher oxidation than what manufacturers like.
Redline 0W30 is also not very good solution. It is also ester based oil and has high oxidation. If LL01 is imperative, Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2 is very good oil, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, etc.
However, those out of warranty Castrol Edge 0W40 is best bet.
I wouldn't be surprised this engine was either on LL01 FE or even on ILSAC GF oils and then was abused.
10W60 didn't kill this engine. It could be that it pushed it over the edge. There was already a problem and this oil was what it needed to die.

I agree, use of the 10W-60 alone did NOT kill this engine. The use of a different filter also other than OEM, provided the oil was being filtered, is not going to kill an engine. Ridiculous for BMW to even imply so.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

I agree, use of the 10W-60 alone did NOT kill this engine.

Another possibility is that there was a slight knock before they sold vehicle. They used 10W60 to hide a problem, maybe even some thickening additives.
If that was the case, it was just matter of time.

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by edycol

OP, I am sorry what happened to you, but let me chime in here about oil.
BMW has every legal right to deny any cost sharing since 10W60 was used and not LL01 or LL01 FE (which I would avoid like a plague, but will come to that later as why).
However, oil is not responsible. Any engine can run on thick oil. You cold start sometime has oil 200x thicker than at operating temperature. Yes, 10W60 is not optimal for various reasons (loss of performance, mpg, more heat) but unless you redline it for 20 minutes at 0 degrees after car spent two nights outside, it is not that.
My take is that engine was neglected before, and BMW did not help by switching to LL01 FE oils.
Rod bearings are an issue on some BMW's, especially N54/55 when oil pump is not primed after OFHG replacement. On top of that, there is evidence of rod bearings failing since introduction of LL01FE oils.
BMW, like other companies, switched to lower HTHS oils to bump CAFE compliance. But these engines and others in BMW line up are really designed with minimum HTHS of 3.5cp. LL01 FE are usually around 3.1cp and IMO, for S63 HTHS of 3.6-4 is optimal. That is what matters (I wrote about this extensively in M2 and F80 forums).
In S63 probably best oil one can use is Castrol Edge 0W40 (it doesn't have anymore LL01. Long story, again I explained in details in those subforums). As for some oils mentioned here, let me clarify some things.
Motul 5W40 Sport is NOT LL01 compliant nor it is compliant to any other approval. It is track oil which means higher oxidation than what manufacturers like.
Redline 0W30 is also not very good solution. It is also ester based oil and has high oxidation. If LL01 is imperative, Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2 is very good oil, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, etc.
However, those out of warranty Castrol Edge 0W40 is best bet.
I wouldn't be surprised this engine was either on LL01 FE or even on ILSAC GF oils and then was abused.
10W60 didn't kill this engine. It could be that it pushed it over the edge. There was already a problem and this oil was what it needed to die.

You are correct and I am wrong about the Motul Sport 5W40. BUT I know for a fact that it was LL01 approved before, they must have changed it. (It was always "very high performance" but it had approvals/certifications) I feel like I'm going crazy because I know I saw it and even sent it to my tech.

Anyway, glad you mentioned it. Thank you.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Blue By You

You are correct and I am wrong about the Motul Sport 5W40. BUT I know for a fact that it was LL01 approved before, they must have changed it. (It was always "very high performance" but it had approvals/certifications) I feel like I'm going crazy because I know I saw it and even sent it to my tech.

Anyway, glad you mentioned it. Thank you.

Only LL01 Motul in 5W40 flavor was X-Cess and now X-Cess GEN2.
BMW LL approvals have highest oxidation standards in industry. New 2018 update is so high that eliminated pretty much all 0WXX oils in LL01 and LL04 category.
But, even before Sport was always oil between X-Cess (all necessary approvals) and 300V. 300V is your ultimate racing weapon. But not so good choice for daily driving. So Motul offered Sport as option for track and dropping kids to daycare. Still, ester based, high oxidation, loaded with track specific additives.
Here is Sport pds from 2014. Only specification in meets is API SM.
Excellent oil, but unless you see track on weekends, not best choice:

http://webshop.swindonpowertrain.com...s/Sport_5W-40_(GB).pdf

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by edycol

Only LL01 Motul in 5W40 flavor was X-Cess and now X-Cess GEN2.
BMW LL approvals have highest oxidation standards in industry. New 2018 update is so high that eliminated pretty much all 0WXX oils in LL01 and LL04 category.
But, even before Sport was always oil between X-Cess (all necessary approvals) and 300V. 300V is your ultimate racing weapon. But not so good choice for daily driving. So Motul offered Sport as option for track and dropping kids to daycare. Still, ester based, high oxidation, loaded with track specific additives.
Here is Sport pds from 2014. Only specification in meets is API SM.
Excellent oil, but unless you see track on weekends, not best choice:

http://webshop.swindonpowertrain.com...s/Sport_5W-40_(GB).pdf

What would be your recommendation for LL01-FE (other than not using it)?

Motul makes their Specific which is compatible. Curious what you would recommend.

Thanks

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Blue By You

What would be your recommendation for LL01-FE (other than not using it)?

Motul makes their Specific which is compatible. Curious what you would recommend.

Thanks

Motul specific LL01 FE is pretty stout. HTHS is 3.4cp which is on the verge of LL01 minimum HTHS of 3.5.
But, SAPS byproduct is, as far as I remember, 1.42%. That is ridiculous SAPS byproduct. More SAPS, more CBU. I personally think anything above 1.2% is too high for DI engines. BMW obviously thinks it is ok as it is approved oil, but still.
If warranty is still on, yes. Otherwise, LL01 is what to go or pretty much any oil that has MB229.5 approval.
IMO, Castrol Edge 0W40 is best bang for a buck. PAO based, stout HTHS, excellent cold pumpabilitiy, really good Noack for 0W40 oil.

[slow_roll]

Originally Posted by edycol

Motul specific LL01 FE is pretty stout. HTHS is 3.4cp which is on the verge of LL01 minimum HTHS of 3.5.
But, SAPS byproduct is, as far as I remember, 1.42%. That is ridiculous SAPS byproduct. More SAPS, more CBU. I personally think anything above 1.2% is too high for DI engines. BMW obviously thinks it is ok as it is approved oil, but still.
If warranty is still on, yes. Otherwise, LL01 is what to go or pretty much any oil that has MB229.5 approval.
IMO, Castrol Edge 0W40 is best bang for a buck. PAO based, stout HTHS, excellent cold pumpabilitiy, really good Noack for 0W40 oil.

What's your opinion/TLDR on Liqui Moly Leichtlauf 5W40? I agreed that Castrol Edge 0W40 is the best bang for the buck. I ran my tuned 2012 Audi S4 with Castrol from new car to 140K before selling with zero oil consumption or engine issues.