[micvite]

Originally Posted by Aronis

The answer is easy, Elon must buy BMW and all the dealerships.

Mike

Lol and then we'd all be driving the exact same car with your choice of black white red or blue paint.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by micvite

Lol and then we'd all be driving the exact same car with your choice of black white red or blue paint.

[AHall]

gpdriver17 any updates on this soap opera? This is one of the more interesting postings.

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by AHall

gpdriver17 any updates on this soap opera? This is one of the more interesting postings.

No updates. My attorney said he had a federal court filing that had to be done by March 1st and we could talk after that. Didn't mention this until after I paid him.

[gpdriver17]

Alright guys, my attorney is finally moving on this!

Here are a few thoughts I had... let me know what you think.

A, when I went to pick up the car, the finance manager told me he submitted my income as a fraction of what it is (~20% of the actual, not even close) because otherwise it would get flagged thinking I used yearly income instead of monthly and, "the system", would just approve it if it was less. Isn't this financial fraud? Even though it was in the bank's favor, it was submitting untruthful information.

B, It's illegal to install a catalytic converter in Illinois without proof of where it came from. They legally cannot say, "we found this in the trunk of the car", and install it. If we push for a new one, will they want to spend an extra $7,800 + tax for new ones to fix this car? Probably not.

C, In Las Vegas where I am now, it's currently illegal for me to be in possession of a catalytic converter. It was also a class 4 felony for me to drive the car as is through Illinois. Some of this should be on them, right?

The finance manager told me he knew exactly what numbers to give the system at Lexus Financial to get anyone approved. I think this financial fraud thing may be the best way to scare the s*** out of the dealership.

[boost3dx]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

Alright guys, my attorney is finally moving on this!
C, In Las Vegas where I am now, it's currently illegal for me to be in possession of a catalytic converter. It was also a class 4 felony for me to drive the car as is through Illinois. Some of this should be on them, right?

This is only partially true for North Las Vegas. It doesn't affect any municipalities outside of North Las Vegas, which I doubt this is where you live.

Also, this was put into law to deter thefts. It has nothing to do with trying to bypass the emissions of the vehicle.

[AHall]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

Alright guys, my attorney is finally moving on this!

Here are a few thoughts I had... let me know what you think.

A, when I went to pick up the car, the finance manager told me he submitted my income as a fraction of what it is (~20% of the actual, not even close) because otherwise it would get flagged thinking I used yearly income instead of monthly and, "the system", would just approve it if it was less. Isn't this financial fraud? Even though it was in the bank's favor, it was submitting untruthful information.

B, It's illegal to install a catalytic converter in Illinois without proof of where it came from. They legally cannot say, "we found this in the trunk of the car", and install it. If we push for a new one, will they want to spend an extra $7,800 + tax for new ones to fix this car? Probably not.

C, In Las Vegas where I am now, it's currently illegal for me to be in possession of a catalytic converter. It was also a class 4 felony for me to drive the car as is through Illinois. Some of this should be on them, right?

The finance manager told me he knew exactly what numbers to give the system at Lexus Financial to get anyone approved. I think this financial fraud thing may be the best way to scare the s*** out of the dealership.

I am not a lawyer, but it seems odd someone cannot possess a catalytic converter. I mean outside of muffler shops and the like, does this mean I cannot purchase one on the internet and install it myself?

Again from the perspective of not being a lawyer, it appears you were informed of what you are calling fraud. Does your knowledge implicate you?

Let us know what your lawyer says when he gets back to you.

[micvite]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

Alright guys, my attorney is finally moving on this!

Here are a few thoughts I had... let me know what you think.

A, when I went to pick up the car, the finance manager told me he submitted my income as a fraction of what it is (~20% of the actual, not even close) because otherwise it would get flagged thinking I used yearly income instead of monthly and, "the system", would just approve it if it was less. Isn't this financial fraud? Even though it was in the bank's favor, it was submitting untruthful information.

B, It's illegal to install a catalytic converter in Illinois without proof of where it came from. They legally cannot say, "we found this in the trunk of the car", and install it. If we push for a new one, will they want to spend an extra $7,800 + tax for new ones to fix this car? Probably not.

C, In Las Vegas where I am now, it's currently illegal for me to be in possession of a catalytic converter. It was also a class 4 felony for me to drive the car as is through Illinois. Some of this should be on them, right?

The finance manager told me he knew exactly what numbers to give the system at Lexus Financial to get anyone approved. I think this financial fraud thing may be the best way to scare the s*** out of the dealership.

A: the bank only requires you yo submit income that you'd like them to consider for repayment of the loan, so technically anything from 0-100% of your actual income plus any household income easily accessible to you is fair game.
B: they don't have to use an oem cat, even if they were forced to buy and install one they could get a used one or an aftermarket replacement that does the job for a fraction of the cost.
C: its up to you to know the laws, being ignorant of them isn't an excuse, so sadly if you try to pin them with that in court you'd be admitting to committing said felonies as well, which could and probably would get you charged.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

Alright guys, my attorney is finally moving on this!

Here are a few thoughts I had... let me know what you think.

A, when I went to pick up the car, the finance manager told me he submitted my income as a fraction of what it is (~20% of the actual, not even close) because otherwise it would get flagged thinking I used yearly income instead of monthly and, "the system", would just approve it if it was less. Isn't this financial fraud? Even though it was in the bank's favor, it was submitting untruthful information.

B, It's illegal to install a catalytic converter in Illinois without proof of where it came from. They legally cannot say, "we found this in the trunk of the car", and install it. If we push for a new one, will they want to spend an extra $7,800 + tax for new ones to fix this car? Probably not.

C, In Las Vegas where I am now, it's currently illegal for me to be in possession of a catalytic converter. It was also a class 4 felony for me to drive the car as is through Illinois. Some of this should be on them, right?

The finance manager told me he knew exactly what numbers to give the system at Lexus Financial to get anyone approved. I think this financial fraud thing may be the best way to scare the s*** out of the dealership.

Some of this I agree with the others some not.....

A) yes it is likely frowned upon, and depending on the situation, it could absolutely be fraudulent. The problem would be proving this was the case that he actually said this unless you have it on record some how. Albeit in the banks favor yes, but you'd need to check with Lexus financial in order to find out, also would need to see exactly what he inputted. if you could prove that he was coaching you to manipulate the Lexus finance portal for credit it could be an angle. However not a great one. But.... This also opens the doors to other potential issues. With this type of behavior it would definitely open the door for other fraudulent things the dealer may have done maybe not on your purchase but others. Also opens the door to what I already mentioned earlier, called "gypsie booking" where a dealer would send in incorrect or inflated book value to the bank to achieve a more favorable term and LTV. Not saying this was done, but I can tell you if they are willing to manipulate when they don't need to (like your income) they most certain are willing to fudge things in other places. But again check with Lexus financial, or the credit application itself. If you're coached to lie on a credit application thats an issue. Period.

B)don't see a lot here, other than if you were to demand original OEM parts installed by a BMW dealer. Which I imagine could come down to something similar to a car being repaired from a car accident insurance covers. Many times, depending on insurance company you have, You have the right to have NEW OEM parts and have a right to chose the shop making the repairs. I dont know in this situation if that would apply since its obviously not n insurance claim. But I highly doubt they could just go grab a random cat have it welded up there and make you deal with it with out your permission. If indeed you could select and have a BMW dealer do it, go talk to a BMW dealer, try to get the absolute HIGHest quote you can, and maybe that expense would be enough to have them take the car back. If it's $7,800.00, thats likely MORE than they profited on the car. Maybe, just maybe they would say fuck it, give us the car back. Or they lose their ass with the repair, when they could just put the stuff back on and re-sell the car. IDK though would take some research. But the angle on that one could be proving that that cat in the trunk is indeed for THAT car. Im sure it is, but youre right, you dont know where it came from, you dont know if its clogged or if its operating as designed. All that could be tested, but is it worth it probably not.

C)being in possession of a catalytic converter may well be illegal, but I highly doubt this could get you into trouble given the circumstances. However, most certainly driving the car that way would be illegal. I disagree on the implications though. I highly doubt you would be in any real trouble given the circumstances, only if YOU purposely removed it and altered it in order to skirt emissions controls. However with this one, this again will depend on the circumstances. Did the dealer know? Did they tell you it'll be fine and not to worry about it? This will come down to disclosures and what they can legally sell or not sell. If they cant sell a car knowing it had no cats, then its illegal wether or not they told you. They broke the law. You driving it is also breaking the law, but I imagine, any issues you could face would easily be ignored given the circumstances. You'd need to prove that they knowing sold it to not being street legal, and I would imagine you'd need to prove you didnt have a choice but to drive it that way, and they are sticking you with it. I dont know on this one, but it would likely be a game of he said she said. But tough to know where, and who broke the law and when etc.


See what the attorney finds out, and hopefully the loan still hasn't been funded, if it hasn't keep on riding it out. The dealer is going to need their money or the car back sooner or later.

[AHall]

gpdriver17 any updates on As The Wheel Turns soap opera?

[AHall]

gpdriver17 Did you decide to keep the car?

[crypto]

Originally Posted by AHall

gpdriver17 Did you decide to keep the car?

Tell him to blink twice if the selling dealership is holding him hostage.

[AHall]

Originally Posted by crypto

Tell him to blink twice if the selling dealership is holding him hostage.

LOL he may be in the trunk with the cats.

[gpdriver17]

Sorry guys! I got busy with work and the attorney was taking forever on this. Funny thing, I finally gave up on returning the car or getting anything out of the dealership, had it shipped to Las Vegas, ordered wheels, a tune, tires. Then the truck driver called me to say he was dropping it off in 1 hour. Literally 3 minutes later the dealership called and said they'd take the car back if I wanted.

I had my attorney call them to work out the details. Looks like they're paying to ship the car back and undo the deal. I'm still out about 3,500 in attorney fees, 1,500 in interest, 2,000 in shipping, 300 in plane tickets to pick the car up, etc. But glad to be done with it.

Still waiting on this to actually happen, but hopefully by the end of the week it'll be a done deal.

Thank you all for your help!!

[gpdriver17]

It's coming up on 3 months and I haven't given the dealership the registration, the temp tags expired, and they haven't released the title to lexus financial, things with financing may be falling apart and that's why they want to make a deal all the sudden. The GM totally ignored me for months. Now he's calling asking to work something out.

[pbonsalb]

It is too bad they took so long, but I believed from the start based on what you related that the dealer would have to take the car back. It would have been better if your attorney had filed suit. Maybe one of the counts would have been for a cause of action that allowed attorney’s fees. Or maybe a settlement could have been negotiated in which you at least recovered some or all of your losses.

[micvite]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

It is too bad they took so long, but I believed from the start based on what you related that the dealer would have to take the car back. It would have been better if your attorney had filed suit. Maybe one of the counts would have been for a cause of action that allowed attorney’s fees. Or maybe a settlement could have been negotiated in which you at least recovered some or all of your losses.

Might still be able to take them to smallclaims court to try and recover fees.

[pbonsalb]

The OP’s small claims probably has no jurisdiction over the dealer. I would not recommend the OP fly to the state the dealer is in for a small claim’s hearing unless maybe he has a friend or family in that city. Maybe the lawyer he paid the retainer to can negotiate an out-of-court settlement, but once the dealer picks up the car it probably won’t be interested. Maybe a court case had already been filed by the lawyer — that would be great, but the OP probably would have provided that detail if it had happened.

[gpdriver17]

I was just about to file a case against them! I was waiting on my attorney to tell me how much he wanted. Since we hadn't heard anything back from the demand letter. That's something they can't just ignore. My attorney said often times they'll just reach out to settle anyways. He's going to push and see how much he can get still and hopefully give me the final deal tomorrow.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

It's coming up on 3 months and I haven't given the dealership the registration, the temp tags expired, and they haven't released the title to lexus financial, things with financing may be falling apart and that's why they want to make a deal all the sudden. The GM totally ignored me for months. Now he's calling asking to work something out.

Yes, I guarantee Lexus financial is pressing on them. Especially if the dealer has been funded on the deal. Lexus may already have or will soon charge them back the entire amount they wired into their account since the title and deal has not been finished. So then the dealer will have no car, no title, no money, nothing. And I would imagine they could have issues with Lexus Financial in the future playing a game like that. It would behoove the dealer to just make this deal go away and cut their losses. But as we know, dealers and a lot of folks who get sued, or have a fear of being sued, arent usually the most level headed when it comes to fixing the hole they dug themselves.

They were for sure getting pressed from both ends, your attorney and the bank who fronted the money. They want their title.

I would definitely do what I could to get any costs incurred back. They messed up, they unwound the deal, and any costs should be on them. Including shipping, fees ect. Attorneys fees may be difficult but the rest should be relatively easy. Especially if you have your attorney draft another demand letter asking them to cut you a check for your costs incurred, or you'll seek further damages in regard to attorneys fees, loss of use, etc etc etc. Attorneys would know well how to handle. It's unlikely you'll recoup all of it, but should be able to get some (hopefully).

You could always only agree to their deal or offer only with the agreement they reimburse all your costs for this stunt. Clearly they dont have a choice in the matter but to take the car back. Otherwise you'd be up shit creek right now. Especially since you still have the car. They dont have legal title, and soon or maybe already they wont have the money for the car either. They'll be wanting this done sooner than later. The more you delay the more they need it to go away, and maybe you'd have some leverage there to get your $ back in full. But im not an attorney, would seek their advice, since im clearly no attorney. LOL

Good luck.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by gpdriver17

Sorry guys! I got busy with work and the attorney was taking forever on this. Funny thing, I finally gave up on returning the car or getting anything out of the dealership, had it shipped to Las Vegas, ordered wheels, a tune, tires. Then the truck driver called me to say he was dropping it off in 1 hour. Literally 3 minutes later the dealership called and said they'd take the car back if I wanted.

I had my attorney call them to work out the details. Looks like they're paying to ship the car back and undo the deal. I'm still out about 3,500 in attorney fees, 1,500 in interest, 2,000 in shipping, 300 in plane tickets to pick the car up, etc. But glad to be done with it.

Still waiting on this to actually happen, but hopefully by the end of the week it'll be a done deal.

Thank you all for your help!!

I am going to say, im a little lost, and some things arent aligning. forgive me if I just missed it or dont remember...

Wasn't the car already in Las Vegas? Thought it was already in your possession before all this? But says you ended up shipping it to LV, ordering wheels and a tune? Didnt it have a tune? But the car died due to the tune?

And how are you paying any interest if the loan wasnt funded, and wasnt in your name? The loan should be unwound, and no interest charges fees, there shouldn't even be any payments made yet? the 2000 shipping should be on them, at least I would try to get that. interest should be irrelevant. Attorney fees and plan tix may be tough to get back.

Im a little confused now. sorry...

[gpdriver17]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

I am going to say, im a little lost, and some things arent aligning. forgive me if I just missed it or dont remember...

Wasn't the car already in Las Vegas? Thought it was already in your possession before all this? But says you ended up shipping it to LV, ordering wheels and a tune? Didnt it have a tune? But the car died due to the tune?

And how are you paying any interest if the loan wasnt funded, and wasnt in your name? The loan should be unwound, and no interest charges fees, there shouldn't even be any payments made yet? the 2000 shipping should be on them, at least I would try to get that. interest should be irrelevant. Attorney fees and plan tix may be tough to get back.

Im a little confused now. sorry...

Sorry if it wasn't clear. The car was in my possession. I bought it in Chicago, drove it to my parents house in Ohio until my home in Las Vegas was ready. Shipped it here. Then I got a Porsche Macan S and needed garage space so I shipped it back to Ohio (my parents have plenty of space for it). Then I just decided to give up on returning it and shipped it back here.

Yes, it had a tune. But if I was going to keep it I wanted to know what was on it, what gas it needed? E30, etc.

The loan is in my name and I've made payments on it. It has been 'funded' in that sense. But I'm pretty sure since they don't have the title, they can still pull funding? I'm not sure exactly how that works.