[SuperHamz]

I'd argue the packs are a purely economical choice - you want two things that are in different packs, you pay for both packs. BMW make more money.

It's like how split rear seats are still an optional extra on a £40-50k car when they're pretty much standard equipment on most other manufacturers.

[F30Andy]

Originally Posted by DaveA

Yes... I could buy the WLTP argument if all the BMW regions dealt with the options in the same way, but they don't... Germany clearly allows different option combinations to the UK...

Other manufacturers clearly are addressing WLTP complications by significantly minimising option choice... they seem to generally go for a number of standard specifications for each model... I am thinking, say, how Mazda seem to be doing it... with very little to actually specify other than model, trim level, engine and colours...

Nissan do this too with the GTR.
Literally no options to tick.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JustChris

I agree the packs are a bit odd. BMW's excuse that it means they have to test more for WLTP etc looks stranger every year with Porsche still offering 1.27M option combinations per vehicle.

Porsche just add £3k per vehicle for a bespoke WLTP test, disguised on the options list as 'Porsche badge' and 'wheels'.

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Porsche just add £3k per vehicle for a bespoke WLTP test, disguised on the options list as 'Porsche badge' and 'wheels'.

£3k must be the base version of the test.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by DaveA

Yes... I could buy the WLTP argument if all the BMW regions dealt with the options in the same way, but they don't... Germany clearly allows different option combinations to the UK...

Other manufacturers clearly are addressing WLTP complications by significantly minimising option choice... they seem to generally go for a number of standard specifications for each model... I am thinking, say, how Mazda seem to be doing it... with very little to actually specify other than model, trim level, engine and colours...

RHD WLTP separate to LHD so lesser economies of scale?

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by SuperHamz

I'd argue the packs are a purely economical choice - you want two things that are in different packs, you pay for both packs. BMW make more money.

It's like how split rear seats are still an optional extra on a £40-50k car when they're pretty much standard equipment on most other manufacturers.

I would tend to agree with you only if it were not possible to option the items in the packs separately... but that is not the case, generally...

You can look at the Comfort and Technology packs on the 1 series and specify each of the 10 items in those packs individually, if you want... They can all be mixed and matched...

I mean, the packs make sense if all the items in a pack are items you want, but not if you only want one or two of the items, in which case you can specify items individually...

It is literally just the adding of 19" wheels where your hands are tied specification-wise... as that forces you to specify the M135i Pro Pack... which forces you to take dark glass and HK audio...

Really quite a strange state of affairs, to be honest...

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

RHD WLTP separate to LHD so lesser economies of scale?

Again, I might be tempted to follow that argument but that does not explain then why the 10 items in the Comfort and Technology packs can each be specified individually and mixed and matched as you like...

Just those 10 items in those 2 packs give you 1,023 unique permutations of 1 or more of those 10 options (if my maths is up to scratch)...

[DaveA]

OK, so, I may be wrong here, and opening myself up to criticism... but my understanding of the WLTP is not that you have to test every possible variant, but that during test procedure the impact of the model’s optional equipment is considered and that the vehicle's homologation basically needs two measures, one for the standard vehicle, and another for the fully equipped model... in essence, giving best and worst case values/scenarios...

BMW themselves seem to be saying as much here:

https://www.bmw.de/de/topics/faszina...missionen.html

Translated:

https://translate.google.com/transla...missionen.html

... and the UK version:

https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/disc...emissions.html

So, really, I just don't get the whole WLTP argument for this approach to the sun protection glass...

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by DaveA

So, really, I just don't get the whole WLTP argument for this approach to the sun protection glass...

I'm more inclined to see the SPG as an option 'desirable' to the British market. (As already mentioned on PCP cost).

I wouldn't be surprised that used buyers want SPG along with other sport options, like the 19" wheels. Dealer feedback to BMW UK for used sales will be a factor.

BMW UK are likely 'managing' the available option packs/combinations, for the UK market. Same as BMW NA manage the options/packs for their market.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm more inclined to see the SPG as an option 'desirable' to the British market. (As already mentioned on PCP cost).

I wouldn't be surprised that used buyers want SPG along with other sport options, like the 19" wheels. Dealer feedback to BMW UK for used sales will be a factor.

BMW UK are likely 'managing' the available option packs/combinations, for the UK market. Same as BMW NA manage the options/packs for their market.

Yes, I suspect this is basically the background to all this..

It just seems odd to me that you can have a standard car with or without the sun protection glass, with just about any combination of other options, but you can only have a car on 19" wheels with the sun protection glass...

It's not as if the glass makes a halfpeth of difference to the dynamics of the car on 19" wheels... and not all cars are financed and rely on residual values...

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by DaveA

It's not as if the glass makes a halfpeth of difference to the dynamics of the car on 19" wheels... and not all cars are financed and rely on residual values...

But does it make a difference to used car sales? That is the bit we don't know. "Sporty"... does that include the SPG? If it does, to the majority of used buyers, may be dealers see a direct connection to wheels and SPG.

BTW, I do agree some models and colours do make the glass stand out. My own car doesn't do too bad, IMO. I sense the front tint may vary a bit as well on some models. But never looked that close, to be honest.

[225]

I would certainly spec it on any car.
The black sapphire 3er I currently have has it and it does look good all mean and moody even on a base msport.
I had shades on the inside of the v90 as that didn't have it and they were a pain.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

But does it make a difference to used car sales? That is the bit we don't know. "Sporty"... does that include the SPG? If it does, to the majority of used buyers, may be dealers see a direct connection to wheels and SPG.

BTW, I do agree some models and colours do make the glass stand out. My own car doesn't do too bad, IMO. I sense the front tint may vary a bit as well on some models. But never looked that close, to be honest.

Sorry if I sounded contrary, because I am following you on this and think it (or something like it) is the most likely reason...

What is strange to me, in that case, is that it is then suggesting that the like/dislikes of the buying public come as a secondary consideration to the future "saleability" of the car should it happen to come back into the network...

... which I can appreciate on the "Mazda" type model of discrete trim levels, but not on this BMW where only this two item on the options list (the glass and the HK audio) are considered as "fixed" when when you want to add larger wheels, as everything else is customisable.. so it seems an extraordinarily narrow beam of focus...

But, yes, it must be something along these lines...

[HighlandPete]

Hasn't potential future sales (including residuals/values) always influenced dealers, for stock and availability?

I sense car colour is also limited due to projections and future demand. Dealers nearly always play safe when speccing their own cars. A good salesman will inform the customer of the pitfalls of adding or missing off certain options. We ignore the advice, at our peril, if we go for some unusual spec. Yes, it is our choice on those occasions, but often the dealers don't really want the car back on the lot as a used car. Or a very low trade-in is offered.

The pack thing, BMW surveyed UK customers on whether we preferred packs or individual options, a few years back. I'm guessing packs were rated quite highly, as more packs gradually appeared after that period.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Hasn't potential future sales (including residuals/values) always influenced dealers, for stock and availability?

I sense car colour is also limited due to projections and future demand. Dealers nearly always play safe when speccing their own cars. A good salesman will inform the customer of the pitfalls of adding or missing off certain options. We ignore the advice, at our peril, if we go for some unusual spec. Yes, it is our choice on those occasions, but often the dealers don't really want the car back on the lot as a used car. Or a very low trade-in is offered.

The pack thing, BMW surveyed UK customers on whether we preferred packs or individual options, a few years back. I'm guessing packs were rated quite highly, as more packs gradually appeared after that period.

It comes to something when wanting a car without sun protection glass (which would be as it comes in its standard form, anyway) might be considered by BMW UK as an unusual spec...

.. and, again, I would have far more sympathy for this sort of thinking by BMW UK if the rest of the specification were not customisable in thousands of combinations...

The colour thing is interesting as if you look at Sport and SE models there is a greater selection than on M Sport models...

Yes, I am sure that it is all some "narrowing of the field" to make things somehow better for them...