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10-10-2010, 01:57 PM | #45 |
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I suspect all to do with emissions and development budgets. Therefore need to use existing engine which reaches C02 targets . Plus chassis, suspension, brakes, steering all have to come from the parts bin. But it is coming from M division so still likely to be a great car.
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10-10-2010, 01:58 PM | #46 | |
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Inclusion of DCT in the 1M would cause the 1M DCT to be faster than the 335is which we would expect from an M car, however it would also end up being cheaper than the 335is DCT which comes in at 52,600. The 1M DCT would probably come in around 46,575. Why would anyone buy a 335is? They wouldn't. With the exclusion of DCT in the 1M, the only reason to buy a 335is is if you want DCT, and thats the exact situation any marketing department would want to create because now you have a reason to go ahead and spend ~5,000 more on a 335is. So even excluding the M3 from this discussion, it still makes sense from a marketing standpoint to exclude DCT. And wasn't there a DCT test mule 1M already? I'm not 100% sure about that but i think i read that somewhere. |
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10-10-2010, 03:28 PM | #47 | |
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10-10-2010, 03:54 PM | #48 |
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This DCT thing is getting silly. I can respect a persons decision to drive a 'stick' (notice I didn't say manual because a dct is a manual with an automatic mode), but in doing so you are knowingly accepting the now slowest shifting transmision available. And if you are honest with yourselves you probably aren't that good with the three pedal anyway. A dct is technologically superior.
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10-10-2010, 04:03 PM | #49 |
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Some have suggested DCT is not in this year's model due to insufficient time for software development . . .
BUT, let me ask this: if the motor really is just the 335iS motor, then why do they need a SECOND of development time? Just pull the entire 335iS drivetrain, and drop it in the 1M. So, either that excuse is wrong, or we WILL have a tweaked motor in 1M. |
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10-10-2010, 05:38 PM | #50 |
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I thought the sane thing kurt.
With regard to my earlier post didn't mean to offend anyone, I am a to each his own kind of guy and to say that it is best or more pure of BMW to not offer their fastest transmision is annoying. Jus like the NA engine being a true M or, that's like saying if you want to be a true driver you need a model T. Technology changes and advances at faster and faster rates, enjoy it or keep your car forever.
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10-10-2010, 06:02 PM | #51 | |
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8:12 would put it on par with the Z4 MC around the ring, and given the way the Z4 MC handles, I doubt a car with less straight line acceleration would be able to keep up. That does make the car sound more promising. Like I said, if it's as much, or more, fun than my Z4 MC I'll buy one. Same or similar N-Ring laptimes is encouraging, and implies exceptional handling unless they were extremely conservative with the 340 number...
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10-10-2010, 06:04 PM | #52 | |
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DCT is not a manual. once you have some kind of automatic HELPING you change gears its called AUTO. a manual is a manual meaning you do everything your self. who cares if it only comes in stick cant anybody just drive stick? and stop crying about it. back in the old days m3 were only stick porsches were only stick. and only those who knew how to drive stick would be able to buy 1 NOW every body could buy 1 these cars do to there DCT and technology. and on top of it they say " i drive stick" lol. DCT= Women Manual= Men |
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10-10-2010, 06:52 PM | #53 | |
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The fact that a computer assists in shifts/clutch is VERY handy in DD mode, faster in track mode, and less involving on the track. If I was going to buy a 1M, and DCT was available, I'd consider it. It's a great, high tech gizmo that also makes the car faster. I like high tech, and I like faster. |
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10-10-2010, 08:45 PM | #54 | |
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its not all about being faster its the FEELING short sifter and a sport clutch and i will be ok |
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10-10-2010, 09:15 PM | #55 | |
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That said, you're really generalizing with that "...honest with yourselves..." comment. Even BMW rates the DCT as only .1 seconds faster to 60mph. Frankly, I very surprised at that. Given how quick the DCT is, I would have expected at least .2 quicker. It's only a 1 shift test to 60mph. Given the milliseconds speed, it's odd that it's only 1/10th faster. The better accel test to show the DCT's speed would be the 1/4 mile and/or the run to 100 and 120mph that require more shifts. So, the actual speed difference is not that insurmountable for a good MT driver going against a DCT. There very well may be quite a few MT drivers that are not that good at shifting, and judging from some of the threads on here, there are a lot of mediocre MT drivers. But, if some of us are being honest with ourselves, were are pretty darn good with the 3 pedal arrangement, and I know there are a lot of us out there. The comment that buyers are accepting the slowest shifting trans sounds like trolling. |
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10-10-2010, 09:19 PM | #56 |
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10-10-2010, 10:40 PM | #57 |
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10-10-2010, 11:56 PM | #58 | |
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+1, and I think the 2700 figure is how many they think they will sell or how many they can make for the time frame. I am sure if there are buyers, they will continue production until the new 1M (F22) arrives.
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10-11-2010, 02:26 AM | #59 | |
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So the car being slower and not having the latest technology is justified if it makes the driver looks like more of a man than he really is? DCT is faster, and i'm not sure about you but my manhood has already been confirmed... These are performance cars. They should be offered as fast as possible |
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10-11-2010, 02:37 AM | #60 | |
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Wouldn't affect my purchase decision though. If I can get one, Euro Del, for around $50k, I'm doing it. |
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10-11-2010, 04:45 AM | #61 | |
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Otherwise I think we'd all be doing a European Delivery 1M - esquire
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10-11-2010, 04:52 AM | #62 |
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Manufacturers like DCT or similar type boxes (twin clutch or hydraulic manuals) because they can use the auto mode (setting to change up at relatively low revs) to look good in emissions tests particularly important with European car taxation regimes.
Having had M3s and audis with manual, SMG and DCT I would say that the SMG / DCT has advantages on the track but I personally prefer manual on the road (I live in a rural area so don't do much city traffic or motorway driving). I suspect that the Z4 DCT won't physically fit in the S1MC and there is not the time or budget to do anything about that. With a short production run the emissions will not have a significant impact on the company's need to bring down overall average emissions. |
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10-11-2010, 06:27 AM | #63 | |
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Not sure why you'd suggest that it would cause the dealer to "lose all that profit"? |
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10-11-2010, 11:19 AM | #64 |
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We here on the forum are never too mature to restart the whole dct/mt argument, for the 78th time, and with EXACTLY the same arguments as in the previous 77 discussions. Like a goldfish in bowl......
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10-11-2010, 11:31 AM | #65 |
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Yes, but that will also make it more complicated and expensive to maintain in the long run. However, that won't be a concern to those who replace their cars every few years though.
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10-11-2010, 11:34 AM | #66 | |
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A three pedal is the slowest shifting and will produce a slower vehicle than a DCT, that is a fact. I truly do get the 'feel' argument, but I don't like that BMW is further watering down the performance of the 1M by going stick only. I am not trying to insult those who choose to have a gated gearbox, I am just saying I want the fastest 1M BMW can realistically build and i think they could have put a DCT on realistically. Maybe they will change there mind and add DCT, at which point I will consider it. The difference in speed is this, a DCT driver will shift perfectly more often than a manual driver and the shift when chosen will ocur faster. Also the numbers BMW posts mean absolutely nothing to me because in countless tests the 08 135i auto has had faster 0-60 times than the manual by .1-.3 seconds and it was listed on the BMW website as .2 seconds slower. BMW lies to you people about times to suit there marketing objectives. This time differential may not mean anything to some, but when you start getting to the sub 5 sec 0-60 times tenths matter. P.S. There is a great difference between a crappy auto, a great auto, and a DCT. If the CTS-V came with a DCT or even a decent auto I would be on there boards right now.
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