Official S65 Rod Bearing Condition Example Thread

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I dropped it because we don't have any data at all on what's happening to oil pressure/flow at the main bearings, and without that we can't have a meaningful conversation.

Hmm, can't see why a couple of percent decreased overall oil pressure would result in dangerously low feed to the main bearings. Care to explain mate?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Obioban

The high pressure oil line is a good example BECAUSE how easy/cheap it would be for BMW to recall/fix. Green Egg's point was that they won't "fix" the rod bearings because if they did so it would be admitting fault and they'd have to recall/replace all engines.

Were there class action lawsuits on any of those?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I don't agree with this statement-- if you look at threads with main bearing failure, a shockingly large proportion of them have increased clearance rod bearings. IMO disproportionately many to the quantity of cars running increased clearance rod bearings.

I think that is a pretty anecdotal point, more s65s now will have bearings done. They are also getting older with more mileage put on them.

Main bearings failures happened long before increased bearings were available. (Granted not nearly as often as rod bearing failures).

You reduce the risk of rod bearing failure, then the potential for main bearing failure is still there granted a much lower rates and due to the cost of preventatively changing the main bearings, many choose to accept that risk.

[wyatth]

Originally Posted by tdott

Were there class action lawsuits on any of those?

I think generally speaking, a manufacturer's decision to upgrade a part later doesn't carry much evidential weight in a lawsuit against them. The policy rationale for excluding such evidence is that no manufacturer would upgrade a part with safety in mind if doing so was seen as an admission of any guilt/wrongdoing. You can still sue them on whatever grounds exist, just that a superseding part isn't going to be the legal admission one would would otherwise expect. So I think BMW's decision to upgrade any parts mentioned in this conversation are neither here nor there in that respect.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Hmm, can't see why a couple of percent decreased overall oil pressure would result in dangerously low feed to the main bearings. Care to explain mate?

A) we don't know what the oil pressure decrease is at the main bearings. We know what the system decrease is. Adjacent items to the increase flow (e.g. main bearings) will see a larger decrease.

B) We don't know what the inflection point is, where the decrease is meaningful.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by tdott

I think that is a pretty anecdotal point, more s65s now will have bearings done. They are also getting older with more mileage put on them.

Main bearings failures happened long before increased bearings were available. (Granted not nearly as often as rod bearing failures).

You reduce the risk of rod bearing failure, then the potential for main bearing failure is still there granted a much lower rates and due to the cost of preventatively changing the main bearings, many choose to accept that risk.

I guess it ultimately comes down to-- do you think there are more main bearing failures now than before.

Generally, I don't think main bearings are a wear item, on any sort of reasonable (say, 500,000+ mile) timeline. So, a main bearing failure I would classify as either a design issue (which includes aftermarket parts, once added) or a manufacturing issue. Any manufacturing issues should be well sorted (kaboom) by 10,000 miles, so these days I'm looking for causes. Main bearing failures on higher mileage (anything over 10,000 miles), totally stock cars are pretty rare.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by Obioban

EGR must be recalled because it's emissions related. They have no choice. Not related to them updating the part or not-- is the emissions systems aren't hitting targets, they will be fixed. Cars have had to reduce horsepower (significantly) after sale if they can't do it, or entire lines of cars purchased back (VW's dieselgate).

Just a minor correction, the EGR cooler recall is nothing to do with emissions, it's to do with a small number of them leaking coolant into the exhaust, and a very small risk of the engines catching fire as a result of the coolant mixing with the soot (somehow making it flammable I guess??) along with a plastic inlet manifold.
AFAIK BMW's weren't found for busting NoX emissions like VW was?

Originally Posted by Obioban

A) we don't know what the oil pressure decrease is at the main bearings. We know what the system decrease is. Adjacent items to the increase flow (e.g. main bearings) will see a larger decrease.

B) We don't know what the inflection point is, where the decrease is meaningful.

I see what you're saying, but if the bearing oil pressure loss was too great then we'd be seeing more issues with rod bearing failures rather than main bearing failures I think, as the rod bearing receives it's feed after the main bearings.

Originally Posted by e92dud

It’s wild to me how much wear these cars have at 40k miles, my ls2s bearings had zero wear at 120k miles with 8 owners and I didn’t baby it.

That's how they should be, although many people don't seem to believe that. I don't suppose you have photos of your old LS2 shells do you?

[e92dud]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

That's how they should be, although many people don't seem to believe that. I don't suppose you have photos of your old LS2 shells do you?

No, I threw them away, I was mad I wasted the time to pull them off because my engine was knocking. Turned out to be a piece of metal that got in the combustion chamber and lodged in the head. They literally had zero wear, maybe 2 hairline scratches on them. They were the original gm ones from 05. Made me believe that the S65 does have something wrong with it, S65s with 20k miles have more wear.

[nschmdbrg]

79k miles on my 2011 e93 m3. Had the work done at Boosted Bimmers in Melbourne Fl, who I highly recommend for anyone in the Orlando/ Space Coast area. The owner, Omar mentioned that bearings had wear through about the first three layers (out of eight) and looked good. Car never tracked, always warmed up, oil changes at 8k miles w/ Liqui Moly. He also mentioned one of his customers has a supercharged M3 with BE bearings with 300k miles..

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by nschmdbrg

79k miles on my 2011 e93 m3. Had the work done at Boosted Bimmers in Melbourne Fl, who I highly recommend for anyone in the Orlando/ Space Coast area. The owner, Omar mentioned that bearings had wear through about the first three layers (out of eight) and looked good. Car never tracked, always warmed up, oil changes at 8k miles w/ Liqui Moly. He also mentioned one of his customers has a supercharged M3 with BE bearings with 300k miles..

Can't tell from the picture, is that pre or post LCI shells mate?

Ps. Woah, is mentioned 300k miles correct or typo??

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by nschmdbrg

79k miles on my 2011 e93 m3. Had the work done at Boosted Bimmers in Melbourne Fl, who I highly recommend for anyone in the Orlando/ Space Coast area. The owner, Omar mentioned that bearings had wear through about the first three layers (out of eight) and looked good. Car never tracked, always warmed up, oil changes at 8k miles w/ Liqui Moly. He also mentioned one of his customers has a supercharged M3 with BE bearings with 300k miles..

Yea don't look too terrible, they look like the later tin/alu/copper shells to me, so typical wear for them.
I'd like to know though how Omar knows there are 8 layers in them? Personally I thought their was much fewer, but I don't have anything solid on that on these particular bearings.

[340_Buckeye]

35k miles, car was well taken care of previously. Definitely did not need to do them this early, but opted to do so for peace of mind and since I was gonna have to do them at some point anyway. Replaced with BE Engineering bearings and ARP rod bolts

[PetrolFumes]

2011 E90 30k miles

[HairTooLongToo]

2008 6MT at 81k miles.

They're not in any cylinder order, I received them as a bunch from the PO. Close ups of the worst ones and interesting edge wear.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by HairTooLongToo

2008 6MT at 81k miles. They're not in any cylinder order, I received them as a bunch from the PO. Close ups of the worst ones and interesting edge wear.

It was definitely time. What brands of new bearings and bolts were they replaced with?

[HairTooLongToo]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

It was definitely time. What brands of new bearings and bolts were they replaced with?

They were replaced with VAC bearings and ARP bolts.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by HairTooLongToo

2008 6MT at 81k miles.

They're not in any cylinder order, I received them as a bunch from the PO. Close ups of the worst ones and interesting edge wear.

Yikes! Yea they badly needed doing, typical wear for the earlier style bearings! lol
And the odd edge wear is quite typical of those too.

************************************************** *

Originally Posted by 340_Buckeye

35k miles, car was well taken care of previously. Definitely did not need to do them this early, but opted to do so for peace of mind and since I was gonna have to do them at some point anyway. Replaced with BE Engineering bearings and ARP rod bolts

Originally Posted by PetrolFumes

2011 E90 30k miles

Do either of you guys fancy doing a little experiment on 1 or 2 of your worst worn old shells?

[e92dud]

Mine at 50k miles, 2009

[RSV Atelier]

2007 M3 - 150000 km .
Replaced with Mahle
From left to right is 1 to 8 .

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by RSV Atelier

2007 M3 - 150000 km .
Replaced with Mahle
From left to right is 1 to 8 .

Thanks for posting. Looks like the shells were "way overdue" for replacement. Saved in the nick-of-time at 93K miles. With all that copper showing, and de-lamination wear beyond the copper, what did the crank journals look like?

[RSV Atelier]

All are ok , and all measured 0.51 with the new bearings.
I just want to say , i am not a "professional garage " . It is sоmething that i do in my spare time .

[higgins2613]

2013 with 45600 miles. Replaced with ACL and ARP2000’s.