[mpower3330]

Originally Posted by omgmike

I ordered the Bavsound ghost subs last night, hoping they'll be a big improvement over the H/Ks. If they are, probably go ahead and order the rest of the Bavsound replacement kit.

Please let us know your thoughts after. I’m leaning this route as well.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by omgmike

Thanks!!

You're welcome!

[CFoote]

I have to be honest with you, I don't find the H/K system to be that bad. I've heard a lot of people complain about it, and currently I have both the H/K (in a prior 540 I sold, and a M5CS) and I also have the B&W system in a newer 540 I still have. I don't find the B&W to be a huge upgrade to the car.

I have B&W and Krell gear in my home, so I do know what a good system sounds like, I mention that only for reference as folks here want to think I have bad hearing

The issue with this chassis is the small 4" drivers in the doors. They are just not big enough to give you the dynamics that all of us are seeking. Most of us like our music loud and to have "punch". With the smaller 8" subs and 4" drivers in this chassis, it just isn't going to happen.

omgmike, if this car is a keeper, skip the Bav speakers and just get it to a shop to do a makeover. Maybe then can do some kick panel speakers or enlarge the openings in the door, I don't know. German cars have always had some sub-par sound systems, though they are much much better than 20 years ago from the E39.

Chris

[Neptune7]

I've never heard the B&W but have the Burmester on my Porsche. The difference from the HK in the M5 CS is easily noticeable.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by CFoote

I have to be honest with you, I don't find the H/K system to be that bad. I've heard a lot of people complain about it, and currently I have both the H/K (in a prior 540 I sold, and a M5CS) and I also have the B&W system in a newer 540 I still have. I don't find the B&W to be a huge upgrade to the car.

I have B&W and Krell gear in my home, so I do know what a good system sounds like, I mention that only for reference as folks here want to think I have bad hearing

The issue with this chassis is the small 4" drivers in the doors. They are just not big enough to give you the dynamics that all of us are seeking. Most of us like our music loud and to have "punch". With the smaller 8" subs and 4" drivers in this chassis, it just isn't going to happen.

omgmike, if this car is a keeper, skip the Bav speakers and just get it to a shop to do a makeover. Maybe then can do some kick panel speakers or enlarge the openings in the door, I don't know. German cars have always had some sub-par sound systems, though they are much much better than 20 years ago from the E39.

Chris

Not a bad idea, but exponentially more expensive. If you're good with spending that kind of money, then of course that's they way to go. But the labor required to do this, and the level of shop/installer necessary is going to be several thousand dollars, maybe even close to $10k all said and done to accomplish what you describe by the time you add in the equipment. Not to mention the extreme disassembly required, as well as extreme modification to the level you could start having other problems. Whatever custom set up you did, is nowhere near as proven as the BavSound once you've started making one off/atypical accommodations.

[Rippy]

Originally Posted by omgmike

I am definitely considering that option, and at the very least I want to put a 10" sub in the trunk cause the HK has no bass. But I don't want to do custom kick panels and other fittings beyond the sub, I'd prefer to have factory fit replacements, so I dunno. Im considering the Bavsound upgrade kit since it's plug and play.

No base?

Are you sure you have set things up correctly haha.

My system sounds amazing.

No complaints

I've heard the B&W setup and I actually think it sounds less impressive than the H&K

Maybe you should just put a custom system in to appease your expectations.

[TFBravo]

Are you just listening to Radio or streaming music over Bluetooth? If so then B&W or any other upgrade won't make a huge difference. My advise is to play music over a USB MP3 device, like an Ipod. There is no degradation in quality since its over wire. When the music is streaming or over air, it pretty much sounds the same on any system. That might be the cheapest upgrade.

Like many said before H/K while over a USB device sounds great and worth the luxury car price tag. I think like someone said some speakers are a little weak compared to others. So it lacks just little of a punch, but its not a deal breaker by any means.

I've never experienced B&W, but to compare I have Mark Levingston in my Lexus, which does bumps slightly harder. I've had Burmeister in my AMG (non premium version), B&O in the Raptor. BASED on these H/K is not that bad, its pretty good. I'd rate Burmeister as number 1 and tie between others. If you want to hear worse, Toyota's JBL is the worse when it comes to "premium" sound systems.

[omgmike]

Originally Posted by Rippy

No base?

Are you sure you have set things up correctly haha.

My system sounds amazing.

No complaints

I've heard the B&W setup and I actually think it sounds less impressive than the H&K

Maybe you should just put a custom system in to appease your expectations.

The only time I actually hear what I would consider acceptable levels of bass are when I'm listening to FM radio, but that's because OTA radio heavily boosts the bass signal to make the music sound more full.

I get middling bass with some tracks over satellite radio, but almost no bass when streaming over wifi (CarPlay uses wifi connection, not Bluetooth). I am aware that a lot of sound quality is lost with streaming from Spotify due to their compression algos, and I will upgrade to lossless when they finally offer it, but I can listen to the exact same track in my wife's Navi that has the Revel system in it and it's a night and day difference.

[omgmike]

Originally Posted by TFBravo

Are you just listening to Radio or streaming music over Bluetooth? If so then B&W or any other upgrade won't make a huge difference. My advise is to play music over a USB MP3 device, like an Ipod. There is no degradation in quality since its over wire. When the music is streaming or over air, it pretty much sounds the same on any system. That might be the cheapest upgrade.

Like many said before H/K while over a USB device sounds great and worth the luxury car price tag. I think like someone said some speakers are a little weak compared to others. So it lacks just little of a punch, but its not a deal breaker by any means.

I've never experienced B&W, but to compare I have Mark Levingston in my Lexus, which does bumps slightly harder. I've had Burmeister in my AMG (non premium version), B&O in the Raptor. BASED on these H/K is not that bad, its pretty good. I'd rate Burmeister as number 1 and tie between others. If you want to hear worse, Toyota's JBL is the worse when it comes to "premium" sound systems.

I listen to all sources — FM, satellite, and streaming. With CarPlay, it's actually streamed over a wifi connection, not Bluetooth, so that removes BLE as the potential issue. I am aware that you lose a lot of sound quality streaming with Spotify because of their compression algos. When they finally release their lossless option I will definitely default to that (Apple Music already offers this) and that will definitely make a difference.

But for comparison's sake, when I stream the exact same track from Spotify in my wife's car, which is a '22 Navi with the Revel system, it is a literal night and day difference. So much so, that when my wife finally took my M out on her own this past weekend, the first thing she thought to tell me when she got back home was how sorry she felt for me because of how awful the H/K system sounds.

I realize not everyone cares or has the same expectations for a car audio system as I do, and I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is how piss poor, IMO, the H/K system is in a vehicle that costs this much. It's really disappointing. For $150k I don't want to have to spend an additional $10k for a quality (again, IMO) audio system. To me this should come from the factory. It's not like we're back in the 90s when aftermarket was the only way to get a quality audio setup in a vehicle.

[omgmike]

Originally Posted by CFoote

I have to be honest with you, I don't find the H/K system to be that bad. I've heard a lot of people complain about it, and currently I have both the H/K (in a prior 540 I sold, and a M5CS) and I also have the B&W system in a newer 540 I still have. I don't find the B&W to be a huge upgrade to the car.

I have B&W and Krell gear in my home, so I do know what a good system sounds like, I mention that only for reference as folks here want to think I have bad hearing

The issue with this chassis is the small 4" drivers in the doors. They are just not big enough to give you the dynamics that all of us are seeking. Most of us like our music loud and to have "punch". With the smaller 8" subs and 4" drivers in this chassis, it just isn't going to happen.

omgmike, if this car is a keeper, skip the Bav speakers and just get it to a shop to do a makeover. Maybe then can do some kick panel speakers or enlarge the openings in the door, I don't know. German cars have always had some sub-par sound systems, though they are much much better than 20 years ago from the E39.

Chris

Appreciate you post, also nice home setup choice! I'm more of a Sonus Faber + Rel + McIntosh guy, but to each their own.

I'm unsure if it will be a keeper or not. If it ends up being one, I'll definitely go the full custom route, but I won't make that decision for another couple of years, which leaves me stuck in this spot in the meantime.

Obviously I will live with the H/K if I have to, or upgraded Bavsound option, but it's a big disappointment for me personally. I appreciate quality car audio as much as I appreciate the power and handling of my M, so it's been a tough pill to swallow.

[Neptune7]

For some, the quality is something they may get used to and end up living with. But I sense you likely won't. Have you thought of just ordering a 23 with the BW?

[CFoote]

Originally Posted by omgmike

Appreciate you post, also nice home setup choice! I'm more of a Sonus Faber + Rel + McIntosh guy, but to each their own.

I'm unsure if it will be a keeper or not. If it ends up being one, I'll definitely go the full custom route, but I won't make that decision for another couple of years, which leaves me stuck in this spot in the meantime.

Obviously I will live with the H/K if I have to, or upgraded Bavsound option, but it's a big disappointment for me personally. I appreciate quality car audio as much as I appreciate the power and handling of my M, so it's been a tough pill to swallow.

I wish you lived closer so you could hear the B&W system. It is definitely nice, but I don't think it's $3k+ nice. I didn't see it as a huge step up from H/K. Bass is a little deeper, mids are a little pronounced, highs are slightly less harsh, but man the volume is about the same between the two. The dynamics just are not there with the small drivers we have in this car....and I think the 7 series has the same drivers as the 5! Sigh.

I love Rel, almost got some but they were hard to get at the time. Much respect for your setup, too!

Remember that the next M5 will be a hybrid, idk about you, but I don't want the extra weight. I'm sure it will be a very fast car, but at what cost. Will it still be fun to drive? Will it still be engaging? Tough to say. We've been set in our ways for decades with the combustion engine, I'm just not there yet, not sure I will be for quite some time.

I'd say consult with a highly respected audio shop - go to the link below, check out the Top Installers, hopefully there's one in your area, and I'd start consulting on what can be done. I feel the same way as you, the systems are underwhelming, a 4" midrange/midbass is just meh.

https://meindustryawards.com/2022-winners/

Chris

[PunjabiM3]

Originally Posted by omgmike

I listen to all sources — FM, satellite, and streaming. With CarPlay, it's actually streamed over a wifi connection, not Bluetooth, so that removes BLE as the potential issue. I am aware that you lose a lot of sound quality streaming with Spotify because of their compression algos. When they finally release their lossless option I will definitely default to that (Apple Music already offers this) and that will definitely make a difference.

But for comparison's sake, when I stream the exact same track from Spotify in my wife's car, which is a '22 Navi with the Revel system, it is a literal night and day difference. So much so, that when my wife finally took my M out on her own this past weekend, the first thing she thought to tell me when she got back home was how sorry she felt for me because of how awful the H/K system sounds.

I realize not everyone cares or has the same expectations for a car audio system as I do, and I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is how piss poor, IMO, the H/K system is in a vehicle that costs this much. It's really disappointing. For $150k I don't want to have to spend an additional $10k for a quality (again, IMO) audio system. To me this should come from the factory. It's not like we're back in the 90s when aftermarket was the only way to get a quality audio setup in a vehicle.

This may be because the Navi is a SUV. I currently have a M5 CS, owned a 2021 M5 with B&W prior to the CS. Yes it sounds better than the HK without a doubt, but it's bass isn't as much as I would have liked. In comparison, we also have a X7 with B&W and it sounds WORLDS better than the B&W I had in the M5. Perhaps better speakers or more of them, but likely due to the cabin being a box versus a sedan which is less than ideal. Just some thought.

[CFoote]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

This may be because the Navi is a SUV. I currently have a M5 CS, owned a 2021 M5 with B&W prior to the CS. Yes it sounds better than the HK without a doubt, but it's bass isn't as much as I would have liked. In comparison, we also have a X7 with B&W and it sounds WORLDS better than the B&W I had in the M5. Perhaps better speakers or more of them, but likely due to the cabin being a box versus a sedan which is less than ideal. Just some thought.

Curious how big the B&W drivers in the X7 are - probably a good upgrade in size!

[FotiosF90M5]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

You can get excellent bass from a trunk subwoofer it just depends on the install and tuning. It's not as simple as throwing a sub box and amp in a trunk and expecting it to sound good. The sub must be installed in the correct location within the trunk, and it must be tuned to match the midbass in the car. Without a DSP this is not easy. Crossover and delay settings are critically important to ensure proper phase alignment between the midbass and the sub, or else you get cancellation. I compete in car audio sound quality meets and I'm a current IASCA national champion, and I have tuned a number of cars that have also won national championships. This is a subject I know an awful lot about. 😉

+1
I have a 10" JL sub in the trunk and it sounds amazing. Can't even tell where it's coming from. I went through absolute hell with this stereo and learned a ton from it. My stereo is now better than the B&W. First full bav sound and it was better then I kept learning more and also spending more. Now have Audisons all around with exception of an Eaton center speaker. Changed under seats to a 4ohm ( stronger power to it ) 8" sub plug and play. All of this plug and play. Then the biggest component was the audio tech Fischer matchup 10 with full DSP and mec slot full plug and play. Tuned myself, took forever and now amazingly crisp powerful highs and perfect Mids. The 10" in the trunk fills entire car with rich strong bass. With professional tuning it would likely be much better than even this. Still looking for pro tuning.
Bottom line it's possible. Way way less than another car and much better sound then b&w even. 7 months ago I knew nothing and got sick of trying to find a place. If I can anyone can. Almost forgot. I did extensive Dynamat sound deadening as well throughout. Nothing crazy but in strategic places. Big help overall.

[FotiosF90M5]

I swear it's just the hk in the m5. It's hugely bad. My wife's 22 X3m has it and it's perfect and it's the new ram one so it's proof it could be better. Just the 5 series for some reason is just super bad. . So annoying.

[Jakerx]

Originally Posted by CFoote

Curious how big the B&W drivers in the X7 are - probably a good upgrade in size!

My X7 has the B&W just like my M5. They sound pretty much the same. X7 is maybe a tiny bit better (probably a few more speakers and maybe a bit larger speakers in some areas) but you can’t really tell too much difference without taking into account very different acoustics in two very different cabins.

[PunjabiM3]

Originally Posted by Jakerx

My X7 has the B&W just like my M5. They sound pretty much the same. X7 is maybe a tiny bit better (probably a few more speakers and maybe a bit larger speakers in some areas) but you can’t really tell too much difference without taking into account very different acoustics in two very different cabins.

Strange. The bass and overall sound of the B&W in my X7 is worlds better than the B&W in my 2021 M5.

[FotiosF90M5]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

Strange. The bass and overall sound of the B&W in my X7 is worlds better than the B&W in my 2021 M5.

All of the upgraded stereos ( Hk or B&W) throughout the upper models are the same size , power, and number of speakers. Same setup for each stereo upgrade but it's the placement and interior shape/size that make it sound so different. The 5 for some reason has the worst acoustics of all imho. Not sure why.

[Jakerx]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

Strange. The bass and overall sound of the B&W in my X7 is worlds better than the B&W in my 2021 M5.

How many M5s do you have?!

And also, can we be friends? I want to see your R8, lol.

[omgmike]

Originally Posted by FotiosF90M5

+1
I have a 10" JL sub in the trunk and it sounds amazing. Can't even tell where it's coming from. I went through absolute hell with this stereo and learned a ton from it. My stereo is now better than the B&W. First full bav sound and it was better then I kept learning more and also spending more. Now have Audisons all around with exception of an Eaton center speaker. Changed under seats to a 4ohm ( stronger power to it ) 8" sub plug and play. All of this plug and play. Then the biggest component was the audio tech Fischer matchup 10 with full DSP and mec slot full plug and play. Tuned myself, took forever and now amazingly crisp powerful highs and perfect Mids. The 10" in the trunk fills entire car with rich strong bass. With professional tuning it would likely be much better than even this. Still looking for pro tuning.
Bottom line it's possible. Way way less than another car and much better sound then b&w even. 7 months ago I knew nothing and got sick of trying to find a place. If I can anyone can. Almost forgot. I did extensive Dynamat sound deadening as well throughout. Nothing crazy but in strategic places. Big help overall.

Thanks, this was helpful. I've only had the car since the end of Mach, so I'm not sure if it's going to be a keeper or not. Once I make that decision, if it's a keeper, I'll definitely go full custom audio. But in the meantime, sounds like following your solution might be a happy middle road for me.

[JakeW1990]

I have HK in my car and the sound quality is amazing- coming from someone that uses Sennheiser headsets. At times, the bass reminds me of my 'woofer days and custom boxes in my cars in high school. It can easily be overwhelming. I can't tell if someone has altered the sound system but, personally, I don't have any issue with the audio quality. That being said, I would expect "fancier" names to be offered with higher end vehicles.