04-24-2019, 07:18 AM | #23 | |
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570 is a nice car but its not reliable from many of my friends accounts. Your 6 year ownership could result in many visits to the dealership for operating issues. If I ever got one, it would be a low mile used one (they depreciate heavily) with a decent chunk of the 3 year OEM warranty remaining.
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04-24-2019, 08:36 AM | #24 | |
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At this level, it's about presence, luxury and showing who got more money. And I choose GT63. I just worked on one last night and the car is just everything I'd want for a sport family sedan that can hold its own next to Astons and Maseratis without breaking down every month. M5 might perform slightly better but looks just like another 4cyl 530i.
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04-24-2019, 08:59 AM | #25 | |
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Objective criteria can be measured; like how quick and fast a car is. It cannot be debated. Subjective criteria is someones opinion - it can be very much debated. Your entire comment is subjective. For example - my cars aren't about "who got more money". That is your personality and what you care about. The GT63 is a nice car - just as the E63S is a nice car. They weren't for me (subjective). Performance is important for me (subjective). And the F90 M5 is the quicker, better handling and faster platform (objective). So for me - it is more fun to drive (subjective). |
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04-24-2019, 09:40 AM | #26 | |
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Last edited by MystroX5; 04-24-2019 at 10:49 AM.. |
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04-24-2019, 10:04 AM | #27 | ||
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04-24-2019, 10:24 AM | #28 | |
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04-24-2019, 10:40 AM | #29 |
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I think they will. The m6 is aggressive but the 650i wasn't nearly as aggressive as the m850i, and the 850 isn't a full m either. So I think if they give an already aggressive car the m treatment it'll be great
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04-24-2019, 10:57 AM | #30 | |
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In my car collection the M850i is a lifestyle vehicle and appeals to me for the $125k mark. 3.6 seconds 0-60mph is fast enough. Beyond that you are sacrificing ride quality and versatility to get any more tack like performance. Last edited by MystroX5; 04-24-2019 at 11:05 AM.. |
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04-24-2019, 11:02 AM | #31 | ||
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No. I can name cars in the pitch dark by looking at their headlights or taillights. I'm talking from a non-enthusiast's eyes like many of my colleagues. They can't tell the difference between 530 and M5. but GT63 is distinctly low, wide and big enough (road presence that a 5 series body can't match) that people will recognize instantly that it's an expensive car.
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04-24-2019, 11:04 AM | #32 |
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I'll try to do a quick summary here.
Guram: We've got one of the fastest Mercedeses in history here — AMG GT 63s. But it's brand new so we got to break it in to unlock the Race Start mode (launch control). Hence we're driving to St. Petersburg and back (from Moscow) to do that and pick up our friend Maksim and his M5 Competition. We understand that those two are not direct competitors (M8 GC is coming) but for now, let's try and compare the fastest 4-doors from both makes. Driving back to Moscow he tries to activate the Race Start mode with 1499 km on the clock — it doesn't work. Then he repeats with 1500 and enjoys a violent launch — the car is fully broken in. 9 minutes in he talks about the ingredients of the GT 63s: powerful motor, nice gearbox, carbon ceramic breaks, rear wheel steering, and active aerodynamics. The Nordschleife lap time is faster in the GT 63s than the standard M5 (no time for the M5 Comp yet). He acknowledges the rear-wheel drive only option in the Mercedes and does some drifting, but mentions the Merc doesn't seem to like being a hooligan — it's cumbersome to engage the rear-wheel drive only mode (unlike a single button click in the BMW) and the burnouts are not consistent, so you might fail miserably if you plan to flex in front of your girlfriend. 13 mins in he talks about the BMW's 4.4 liter engine being a failure in the previous generation (F10) in terms of reliability. Although the engine is principally the same, the components have been redesigned so the hopes are it will be more reliable now. He doesn't feel like the M5 Comp suspension is violently harsh, but the improvement of handling vs the standard M5 is noticeable. Dyno + scales. Both cars are more powerful and torquey than the official numbers. The Merc's power curve is more impressive, but the car is heavier. Those who say that Mercedes is not about speed but about luxury and comfort would be surprised that this one rides harsher than the BMW. He likes the AMG's exhaust a lot. Its interior is also a winner — when you get in you feel your money's worth (unlike the BMW). Maxim grapples with headrests being uncomfortable and no ventilated seats in such an expensive car. Drag races. Pretty obvious. The M5 is slightly faster but they give its due to the Merc for keeping up given its extra weight. Conclusion. Maksim being a bimmer fanboy jokingly suggests that the conclusion should be 'BMW is power', Guram tries to be objective. He says he expected the Merc to be significantly slower, so he's very impressed with the performance. Both of the cars are top vehicles, hence there are no losers. But there are disciplines at which one is better than the other: — Drag racing, BMW — Braking, BMW — Exhaust, AMG — Exterior, AMG — Interior, AMG — Price, BMW Though you shouldn't choose based on the numbers and facts. You should choose with your heart. As for Guram, he's quite happy with his Trackhawk. Last edited by siarhei; 04-24-2019 at 02:26 PM.. |
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04-24-2019, 12:00 PM | #33 | |
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That is your opinion. It’s a slower car - in every way - that is a fact. That isn’t important to you. I think that sums it up. |
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04-24-2019, 12:44 PM | #34 | |||
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04-24-2019, 01:03 PM | #35 |
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AMG is on 100 treadwear Sport Cup 2 racing tires (BMW only offers them on the hardcore M3 CS, M4 CS, M4 GTS)
M5 is on 220 treadwear P Zeros. When AutoBild tested both cars on equal tires (P Zeros on M5, MPS4 on GT63S) the M5 was quicker around track. It's crazy how Mercedes even offers Sport Cup 2's on a family saloon. It's dangerous to drive with Sport Cup 2's in the rain you're subjecting your ''family'' to danger. |
04-24-2019, 01:29 PM | #36 | |
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M5 is in fact, yes I agree with you, a better performing car than GT63 as shown in this test. but I'm stating that performance per dollar is not the only buying factor for the rest of the world. M5 has been that car that punches above its weight class for the past 20 - 30 years while looking like a normal family sedan. and this generation M5 follows this philosophy.
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04-24-2019, 01:37 PM | #37 | |
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But when you see a GT63 coming down the road, anyone will notice how wide, low, long, aggressive, loud, and different it is compared to 99% of the cars next to it. that's why this GT63 exists. it's not about 10th of a second at the track for the best $$$.
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04-24-2019, 01:48 PM | #38 | |
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Cross shopping BMW sure I think the M5 is obviously the better value, but there are better options in Merc's own lineup. |
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04-24-2019, 02:22 PM | #39 |
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What’s wrong with looking like a 5 series? It’s a attractive design. It’s not like MB is anymore exclusive than BMW. Looking like a 5 series is not a negative but a positive extension of brand design continuity. A base 911 looks a lot like a 911 Turbo to the average person.
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04-24-2019, 02:44 PM | #41 | ||
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This is also my point: you don't have to agree with me about the objective points - because they are objective and cannot be argued; the GT63 is slower than a M5 CE in every measurable way. It is also - objectively - about 60K more expensive. So if "the rest of the world" and yourself - needing to show people you have coin - again this is hypothetically as you don't own a GT63 - and it is worth that extra coin - to you - cool. Quote:
I am an enthusiast - a fanboy would mean I don't look at logic and confuse objective and subjective criteria constantly - and simply imposed what I believed subjectively on everyone else as to what car is worth money and why it was built. That said, the M5 IS understated (as I said above) - but it most certainly does not look exactly like a 530 unless you are speaking with people who have difficulty seeing and have zero interest in cars - which makes it a moot point anyway. Very similar? Yes. Identical? No. More importantly - and this is the key for a drivers car; same options, capabilities, drive and performance as a 530i? Hell No. Only people seeing the outside of the car while I am driving it - isn't me. Last edited by vtknight; 04-24-2019 at 03:29 PM.. |
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04-24-2019, 02:48 PM | #42 | |
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I guess I have done it again - TWO cars I should not have bought because they aren't sparking jealousy in other people. I guess I have to lower my self confidence level. |
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04-24-2019, 03:21 PM | #43 | |
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04-24-2019, 03:40 PM | #44 |
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The whole tread confirms my believe that performance for performance BMW cars are probably the most value for money.
Mercedes are high volume producing car manufacturers. Their cars no matter how attractive or expensive are very unlikely to command the same status as Aston Martins, Maclaren, Ferrari, Bentley. So if buying an expensive car is for status symbol, I would advise not to buy high volume producing car brands like BMWs, Mercedes, Audi, Range Rover. Again dollar for dollar for performance cars. BMWs represent a value. A good value. M5c and M2c came 2nd and 3rd in performance car of the year only beaten by a much more expensive track focused Porsche GT2 RS.
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