[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by marcvtec

I do not think so, Fegelein is a stand up guy, and him and and I have chatted on various threads. I believe he values our input as I value his.
It is a lovely car, just the 3rd row leather should be tighter, nothing wrong with mentioning that imo.
Respect. we all drive 100 K M5's lol.

Agreed!

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by Aronis

Just sat in one. Maxed out. $106k. Very nice. Rear seat room ok. Seems narrower than my Q7. Very luxurious seats. Power fold down seats a big gimmicky. Too slow for real daily use. Third row on par with Q7. Love the power side shades ect. Alcantera head liner. Beautiful interior. Middle row seats very comfortable.

Yes. Excellent mate for M5. But is it two times a Sienna?? (Yes LOL).

Mike

Did you realize the 2nd row seats are fully adjustable?! That will lengthen the 3rd row legroom. Maybe the second row you saw was all the way back.

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by LQM5

Getting this one for the wife

Nice, but I assume no small kids?! White interior is murder, better get them scotch guarded ASAP!

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by SocalDude

A question on your comment about power. Does the 40i have sufficient power? I mean we drive M5s so power is important! I am considering the X7 and am concerned about the lack of power on the 40i for such a big car. Your thoughts on the 40i power would be appreciated. Thanks.

You sort of have to change your mindset, when driving anything but our M5s, we are so jaded by the power.
For a large SUV, I have no issue w/ the engine's performance. It sort of fools you, because being jaded, you are always looking for that huge power rush. However, when you look at the speedo, you wind up surprised at how fast you accelerated and actually going. I had to set the MPH alert at 80, especially since it's my Wife's, who has a HEAVY foot. I'd take both out on a test drive, but drive the 4.0i first...

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by Fegelein

Did you realize the 2nd row seats are fully adjustable?! That will lengthen the 3rd row legroom. Maybe the second row you saw was all the way back.

I adjusted all seats, moved between seating positions, as I usually do when I look at a car. The seats are very nice, but no SUV has the third row space of a minivan. That's just a basic design issue. But this X7 is huge improvement over the brief time the X5 was available with a third row. BMW nixed that third row X5 after ? one model year? not sure.

Mike

[BeamerandBimmer]

I believe that the new X5 will be offered with a third row soon.

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by Aronis

I adjusted all seats, moved between seating positions, as I usually do when I look at a car. The seats are very nice, but no SUV has the third row space of a minivan. That's just a basic design issue. But this X7 is huge improvement over the brief time the X5 was available with a third row. BMW nixed that third row X5 after ? one model year? not sure.

Mike

Did you mention the word "Minivan" and X7 in the same sentence?! If you are comparing Minivans to the X7, no words on that....
X5 wise, the new model has a 3rd row offering, but it's really leg room limited.

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by Fegelein

Did you mention the word "Minivan" and X7 in the same sentence?! If you are comparing Minivans to the X7, no words on that....
X5 wise, the new model has a 3rd row offering, but it's really leg room limited.

why, yes I am.....LOL..

"Sport utility" vs "real utility." Its a valid comparison for "utility." Sure they are very different LOOKING vehicles. But their mission is very similar. "Carry People and their Stuff" CP&S cars.

Who takes a BMW SUV off road? No one. So the higher ground clearance is a waste of potential interior space.

Who uses a BMW SUV to travel often with three kids, luggage and a dog? Sure many, because that is what they bought. But its not great unless the dog is small and the kids are quite young, or one does not have legs. The X7 may make this better but the space behind the third row is TINY. But you'll have your SUV long enough to outgrow it quickly as the small kids grow. We did plenty of long distance trips in the Minivan and Q7. Each time we were off in the Q7 we wished we still had the Minivan.

When we traveled long distance in our Q7 with just two of our kids and TWO DOGS (80 pound labs) and our luggage, we had to use a Thule container on the roof and a Trailer Hitch mounted RACK, we were able to travel with people, dogs and luggage. The Minivan fits it all.

It's not a BMW or Audi bash, its a basic design comparison.....Minivan has much greater interior volume. Ours has AWD. It has a smaller towing capacity but plenty for MOST USES. How often do you see an BMW SUV pulling a big boat or RV trailer or say ANYTHING????? RARE....Yes we pull our trailer with the Q7, 8x4 utility for going to the dump or picking up something at Home Depot. (And don't get me started on the X5M's inability to have a factory trailer hitch? Aftermarket, blah blah blah, but clearly BMW does not want you pulling a trailer with your $120,000 X5M S.U.V. D'ooh.)

The Q7 is more fun to drive. And the X7 is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH NICER looking and much more luxurious, and I am sure will spank either the Sienna or Q7 for performance, but my comparison is about utility.

So lets get down to the real nut of this topic.

Who makes a Minivan sized vehicle with the Luxury items of the X7 or X5, or Q7 or Q9, or whatever? NO ONE. NONE. WTF? I know a V8 powered, luxurious MINIVAN, yes, FRIGGEN MINIVAN would sell. In the crowd of people who drive minivans is a subset of people who can afford an upscale minivan with the luxury items and some balls, there are customers looking for such a thing. We 'settle' for an SUV because of the marketing BS and because they have NICER interiors with more bells and whistles, but certainly not the utility of the minivan. If Toyota made a Lexus version of the Sienna, I would have bought that one. Anyone else?

End Rant.

Mike

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by Aronis

why, yes I am.....LOL..

"Sport utility" vs "real utility." Its a valid comparison for "utility." Sure they are very different LOOKING vehicles. But their mission is very similar. "Carry People and their Stuff" CP&S cars.

Who takes a BMW SUV off road? No one. So the higher ground clearance is a waste of potential interior space.

Who uses a BMW SUV to travel often with three kids, luggage and a dog? Sure many, because that is what they bought. But its not great unless the dog is small and the kids are quite young, or one does not have legs. The X7 may make this better but the space behind the third row is TINY. But you'll have your SUV long enough to outgrow it quickly as the small kids grow. We did plenty of long distance trips in the Minivan and Q7. Each time we were off in the Q7 we wished we still had the Minivan.

When we traveled long distance in our Q7 with just two of our kids and TWO DOGS (80 pound labs) and our luggage, we had to use a Thule container on the roof and a Trailer Hitch mounted RACK, we were able to travel with people, dogs and luggage. The Minivan fits it all.

It's not a BMW or Audi bash, its a basic design comparison.....Minivan has much greater interior volume. Ours has AWD. It has a smaller towing capacity but plenty for MOST USES. How often do you see an BMW SUV pulling a big boat or RV trailer or say ANYTHING????? RARE....Yes we pull our trailer with the Q7, 8x4 utility for going to the dump or picking up something at Home Depot. (And don't get me started on the X5M's inability to have a factory trailer hitch? Aftermarket, blah blah blah, but clearly BMW does not want you pulling a trailer with your $120,000 X5M S.U.V. D'ooh.)

The Q7 is more fun to drive. And the X7 is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH NICER looking and much more luxurious, and I am sure will spank either the Sienna or Q7 for performance, but my comparison is about utility.

So lets get down to the real nut of this topic.

Who makes a Minivan sized vehicle with the Luxury items of the X7 or X5, or Q7 or Q9, or whatever? NO ONE. NONE. WTF? I know a V8 powered, luxurious MINIVAN, yes, FRIGGEN MINIVAN would sell. In the crowd of people who drive minivans is a subset of people who can afford an upscale minivan with the luxury items and some balls, there are customers looking for such a thing. We 'settle' for an SUV because of the marketing BS and because they have NICER interiors with more bells and whistles, but certainly not the utility of the minivan. If Toyota made a Lexus version of the Sienna, I would have bought that one. Anyone else?

End Rant.

Mike

FYI, MB tried the upscale Mini-Van and the model crashed and burned after few years in production.
This AMG was the cream of the crop.
https://www.autotrader.com/car-video...minivan-267817
To each his own, but I wouldn't be caught dead in a Minivan.

[nlaak]

Originally Posted by Aronis

Who takes a BMW SUV off road? No one. So the higher ground clearance is a waste of potential interior space.

This has little or nothing to do with the argument. You know why many people buy SUVs over minivans (and caused the corresponding crash in minivan sales in the US)? The ride height. People feel they get a better view of the road over the vehicles in front of them when driving an SUV.

And in the short term they will, but as the US car market transitions more away from sedans and to SUVs the average roof height of vehicles on the road will rise (more) and their view will go back to being as obscured as it was when everyone drove vehicles lower to the ground.

It's partly why so many people buy full size pickups here and yet rarely use them for hauling anything more other than groceries.

[Aronis]

LOL. I have had a Minivan in the family since 2008. The ride height is pretty high!

Perhaps I can ride on the roof?

Mike

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by Fegelein

FYI, MB tried the upscale Mini-Van and the model crashed and burned after few years in production.
This AMG was the cream of the crop.
https://www.autotrader.com/car-video...minivan-267817
To each his own, but I wouldn't be caught dead in a Minivan.

I looked at that "MB minivan" and it was not one. Its interior space is not better than a typical SUV. It was some kind of halfway point and again did not have the interior space of a minivan. And it was very expensive. There are several different similar almost minivans but no the real thing.

How many Siennas did Toyota sell last year?

Sienna vs X5
2018 87,672 30,590
2017 111,489 34,641
2016 127,791 37,097
2015 137,497 38,230

I am not bashing the X5 and X7, but the question was CAN you compare Utility type vehicles, such as Minivans and SUV's? Yes you can. It's a valid comparison. More so than M5 vs Corvette.

Some SUV's are built on TRUCK FRAMES and some are not. Can we compare those to each other?

You have to be an owner of a Minivan and interact at child hauling events with other parents to understand. Others with various SUV's are always complaining about space in their Sports utility Vehicle (Small u).



Mike

[devondragon]

While I don't have an X7 I DID take my Q7 off roading several times It was really impressive (although my new Jeep GC TrailHawk is much better for that).

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by Aronis

I looked at that "MB minivan" and it was not one. Its interior space is not better than a typical SUV. It was some kind of halfway point and again did not have the interior space of a minivan. And it was very expensive. There are several different similar almost minivans but no the real thing.

How many Siennas did Toyota sell last year?

Sienna vs X5
2018 87,672 30,590
2017 111,489 34,641
2016 127,791 37,097
2015 137,497 38,230

I am not bashing the X5 and X7, but the question was CAN you compare Utility type vehicles, such as Minivans and SUV's? Yes you can. It's a valid comparison. More so than M5 vs Corvette.

Some SUV's are built on TRUCK FRAMES and some are not. Can we compare those to each other?

You have to be an owner of a Minivan and interact at child hauling events with other parents to understand. Others with various SUV's are always complaining about space in their Sports utility Vehicle (Small u).



Mike

We are deeply involved w/ 3 kids events and carpooling for football, baseball, soccer, basketball, etc. That's why wife insists on 3 rows / 7 seater. Agreed on interior space comparison, but it's never an issue for us. If you are like Buttermaker and pile in the whole team, then I can see where you are coming from!

[marcvtec]

Originally Posted by Aronis

I looked at that "MB minivan" and it was not one. Its interior space is not better than a typical SUV. It was some kind of halfway point and again did not have the interior space of a minivan. And it was very expensive. There are several different similar almost minivans but no the real thing.

How many Siennas did Toyota sell last year?

Sienna vs X5
2018 87,672 30,590
2017 111,489 34,641
2016 127,791 37,097
2015 137,497 38,230

I am not bashing the X5 and X7, but the question was CAN you compare Utility type vehicles, such as Minivans and SUV's? Yes you can. It's a valid comparison. More so than M5 vs Corvette.

Some SUV's are built on TRUCK FRAMES and some are not. Can we compare those to each other?

You have to be an owner of a Minivan and interact at child hauling events with other parents to understand. Others with various SUV's are always complaining about space in their Sports utility Vehicle (Small u).



Mike

Caddy ESV - yes truck frame, and higher 3rd row,
BUT tons of space man,
Sienna is a very nice minivan and lower rear seating and lower rear luggage area.
Thing is a sliding door, and minivan, just don't flow well, at my snotty soccer club, lol.

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by marcvtec

Caddy ESV - yes truck frame, and higher 3rd row,
BUT tons of space man,
Sienna is a very nice minivan and lower rear seating and lower rear luggage area.
Thing is a sliding door, and minivan, just don't flow well, at my snotty soccer club, lol.

Well said and another point I was going to make. Where I am in the burbs of NYC, minivans are laughed at and usually driven by the "help" or a family that is down and out. Don't mean to be snobby, just the way it is....
There was a time when we needed a huge vehicle. I had 3 babies in car seats, pack and plays, etc. So I went with an Escalade ESV! No minivan for me, but again, to each his own!

[dardeca]

Originally Posted by Aronis

why, yes I am.....LOL..

"Sport utility" vs "real utility." Its a valid comparison for "utility." Sure they are very different LOOKING vehicles. But their mission is very similar. "Carry People and their Stuff" CP&S cars.

Who takes a BMW SUV off road? No one. So the higher ground clearance is a waste of potential interior space.

Who uses a BMW SUV to travel often with three kids, luggage and a dog? Sure many, because that is what they bought. But its not great unless the dog is small and the kids are quite young, or one does not have legs. The X7 may make this better but the space behind the third row is TINY. But you'll have your SUV long enough to outgrow it quickly as the small kids grow. We did plenty of long distance trips in the Minivan and Q7. Each time we were off in the Q7 we wished we still had the Minivan.

When we traveled long distance in our Q7 with just two of our kids and TWO DOGS (80 pound labs) and our luggage, we had to use a Thule container on the roof and a Trailer Hitch mounted RACK, we were able to travel with people, dogs and luggage. The Minivan fits it all.

It's not a BMW or Audi bash, its a basic design comparison.....Minivan has much greater interior volume. Ours has AWD. It has a smaller towing capacity but plenty for MOST USES. How often do you see an BMW SUV pulling a big boat or RV trailer or say ANYTHING????? RARE....Yes we pull our trailer with the Q7, 8x4 utility for going to the dump or picking up something at Home Depot. (And don't get me started on the X5M's inability to have a factory trailer hitch? Aftermarket, blah blah blah, but clearly BMW does not want you pulling a trailer with your $120,000 X5M S.U.V. D'ooh.)

The Q7 is more fun to drive. And the X7 is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH NICER looking and much more luxurious, and I am sure will spank either the Sienna or Q7 for performance, but my comparison is about utility.

So lets get down to the real nut of this topic.

Who makes a Minivan sized vehicle with the Luxury items of the X7 or X5, or Q7 or Q9, or whatever? NO ONE. NONE. WTF? I know a V8 powered, luxurious MINIVAN, yes, FRIGGEN MINIVAN would sell. In the crowd of people who drive minivans is a subset of people who can afford an upscale minivan with the luxury items and some balls, there are customers looking for such a thing. We 'settle' for an SUV because of the marketing BS and because they have NICER interiors with more bells and whistles, but certainly not the utility of the minivan. If Toyota made a Lexus version of the Sienna, I would have bought that one. Anyone else?

End Rant.

Mike

Well said. The X7 is a fantastic looking vehicle and does serve a specific need. However, it wouldn't work for my family of 5 plus dogs when we drive 300 miles to West Texas each year to go hunting at our ranch. The wife drives a Yukon XL Denali that we use for that specific purpose. 95% of the time, we don't need the extra space of the Yukon XL, but when we do road trips, we're glad we have it!!

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by dardeca

Well said. The X7 is a fantastic looking vehicle and does serve a specific need. However, it wouldn't work for my family of 5 plus dogs when we drive 300 miles to West Texas each year to go hunting at our ranch. The wife drives a Yukon XL Denali that we use for that specific purpose. 95% of the time, we don't need the extra space of the Yukon XL, but when we do road trips, we're glad we have it!!

But you are sort of off of Aronis' point. His point is Minivan in lieu of X7 for space, whereas you went Dinali, like I did in the past w/ the Escalade. So why didn't you go minivan?! Not for you either right?
Again though, Aronis is entitled to his likes and opinion, I'm not bashing him here.

[dardeca]

Originally Posted by Fegelein

But you are sort of off of Aronis' point. His point is Minivan in lieu of X7 for space, whereas you went Dinali, like I did in the past w/ the Escalade. So why didn't you go minivan?! Not for you either right?
Again though, Aronis is entitled to his likes and opinion, I'm not bashing him here.

Actually, we had a minivan when the kids were younger and in car seats. I felt like I lost one of my testicles the day we purchased the minivan (). I'll never forget that day...dealer pulled up the minivan, handed my wife the keys...she hit the button on the remote to open the sliding side door. Kids were 2 or so at that time and they walked right over to the minivan, hoped in and sat in the seats. Literally at that moment I think I yelled out "F*ck we're about to buy a minivan".

It was a great family vehicle for that stage of our kids lives. Once they got older we went to the Yukon XL and find it is just as practical and can pull more stuff if needed.

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by dardeca

Actually, we had a minivan when the kids were younger and in car seats. I felt like I lost one of my testicles the day we purchased the minivan (). I'll never forget that day...dealer pulled up the minivan, handed my wife the keys...she hit the button on the remote to open the sliding side door. Kids were 2 or so at that time and they walked right over to the minivan, hoped in and sat in the seats. Literally at that moment I think I yelled out "F*ck we're about to buy a minivan".

It was a great family vehicle for that stage of our kids lives. Once they got older we went to the Yukon XL and find it is just as practical and can pull more stuff if needed.

HAHAHA! Exactly, you nailed it brother!
People coming up to my wife in town now. Everybody loves the X7 and has been dying to see one. For now, it's a unicorn, barely any on road. I haven't seen another yet, but I sure I will soon. Every where you look in town "large full 3 row SUV wise", it's usually a GLS or a Denali / Escalade.

[norbtx]

My wife has a Chrysler Pacifica. We love it. I'm pretty secure with my self image so I have no problems driving it. For what it is, its the perfect tool for what we need. If you guys want a decent SUV, why not get one from an SUV company, like a Range Rover?

[Fegelein]

Originally Posted by norbtx

My wife has a Chrysler Pacifica. We love it. I'm pretty secure with my self image so I have no problems driving it. For what it is, its the perfect tool for what we need. If you guys want a decent SUV, why not get one from an SUV company, like a Range Rover?

I feel a car is an extension of ones personality, and a "minivan" surely doesn't fit mine, nor my wife's, who's a hot blonde w/ a heavy foot.
Rovers are garbage and I don't think it has full 3 rows anyway. Regardless, would never consider.