[Falafel Combo]

Love, love, LOVE the fact that they are bringing back extended leg bolsters!!!

[bimmer456]

Car sounds great when moving, not so much when idling (can't hear anything) or revving. The MX-Drive really makes a difference on the track, no sliding whatsover. I would want to keep it in this mode most of the time on the street, especially in the rain. Finally an M car you can drive year round.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

BMW already mentioned it wouldn't use American transmissions for its shift quality(shift time and smoothness) albeit its high torque limit advantage. Why would they cross the Ocean deliberately when they have excellent makers such as Getrag and ZF already in Europe?

They did for the e9x 328's...

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Also, it still sounds just like an F10.

[michal12]

Interesting. This car sound kinda different to me. Different to previous prototypes, different to F10.

EDIT: Just noticed someone in a post above above is saying it sounds similar to F10. Haha different ears, different perception

EDIT II: I would argue they added a little bit of melody (finally!) in small/mid RPM.. I higher revs it sound just like the old engine.

[Igor_M5]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Love, love, LOVE the fact that they are bringing back extended leg bolsters!!!

They never went anywhere for the M5 lol

[shivaswrath]

Shifter looks like a chubby schlong.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I have to point out that fastest DCT in the market shifts in 6-8ms. Contact ZF (Porsche tranny supplier) for a more accurate info. DCT is consistent in downshifts at the limit where torque converter struggles after a while due to overheating. It might be just me, but I hate the half-clutch-all-the-time feel of auto tranny.

I find it hard to believe that the PDK shift time is 7-8ms...

Regardless, the new GM/Ford 10-speed auto shifts significantly faster than the PDK, so no reason a auto transmission in the M5 can deliver the goods!

http://www.motortrend.com/news/porsc...maro-zl1-auto/

[JMD]

...notice the small amount of space between tires and wheel weld! There's no "Look Ma, I'm a 4x4!" look to it.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Igor_M5

They never went anywhere for the M5 lol

Ok interesting. Sorry, I've never had an m5 so I just assumed they did away with them the same time they did on the m3's.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

Also, it still sounds just like an F10.

Same engine, isn't it ? I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

[R N M]

Sounds whisper quiet - the ///M exhaust sound engineers need to take a visit to AMG asap!

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Boss330

I find it hard to believe that the PDK shift time is 7-8ms...

Regardless, the new GM/Ford 10-speed auto shifts significantly faster than the PDK, so no reason a auto transmission in the M5 can deliver the goods!

http://www.motortrend.com/news/porsc...maro-zl1-auto/

DCT engages and disengages clutch simultaneously because the it has dual clutches(lol) where torque converter has to lock up gear each time; it is inherently slower, although I will point out that with the perfect balance of engine and powertrain, ZF also could be fast. I just do not like the less connected feel of torque converter since it moves on its own after releasing the brake.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I just do not like the less connected feel of torque converter since it moves on its own after releasing the brake.

You mean creep from a standstill?

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by lemetier

You mean creep from a standstill?

Yep

[Johndong888]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Same engine, isn't it ? I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

Ugh, always disappoints me whenever I hear this lol

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Yep

It doesn't do that with this variant, just as it hasn't in the F85/6. This version is 2 generations ahead of those models with additional features.

It shifts just as fast as DCT and with the same intensity as an E60 M5 SMG.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Johndong888

Ugh, always disappoints me whenever I hear this lol

I may be wrong, but I thought it had the same basic engine as the F10 M5....

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by lemetier

You mean creep from a standstill?

It's interesting, because I had DCT on my 2010 135, and PDK on my 981 CS, and both cars would "creep" forward.

In my ZCP M3, it doesn't do anything until you press the throttle, which has taken some getting used to. I am not sure that aspect of the DCT going away would bother me too much...

[IS3andME]

Lexus RC-F makes an appearance in the vid. Sitting still, and being passed by the M5, just like it has been by the M4.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

DCT engages and disengages clutch simultaneously because the it has dual clutches(lol) where torque converter has to lock up gear each time; it is inherently slower, although I will point out that with the perfect balance of engine and powertrain, ZF also could be fast. I just do not like the less connected feel of torque converter since it moves on its own after releasing the brake.

Yes, the DCT clutches operate simultaneously as in one engaging as the other disengages. However there has to be a small window between engagement and disengagement of the two clutches as they can't be engaged simultaneously (such a situation would lock up the transmission). This is the big advantage for a DCT over a SMG type manual gearbox. On a SMG you need to disengage clutch, change gear, engage clutch again (just like on a regular manual gearbox, just managed by the TCU instead of by the driver).

But I think you have gotten how an automatic transmission works slightly wrong.

The torque converter has nothing to do with the gearshifts. The torque converter is simply the automatic transmissions equivalent to a clutch and transfers power from the engine to the transmission. On modern automatic transmissions (or since the '80ies) you have the lock up function in the torque converter which basically acts just like a clutch when engaged, ie no slippage allowed whatsoever. On the M5 lock up will be applied in every gear. This means that, when on the move, the torque converter will be locked up and no slip is allowed.

When changing gears in an automatic transmission the only delay between gears is down to how fast the clutches in the transmission (not the lock up clutch in the torque converter) that manipulates the planetary gears can be engaged/disengaged. Similar to how fast a DCT transmission can engage/disengage the two clutches. In an automatic transmission, unlike on a DCT/manual transmission, you don't mechanically move cogs/gearsets to engage a different gear. It's just engaging/disengaging band type clutches that operates the planetary gears. And if the lock up clutch in the torque converter is engaged, there is no slippage in the torque converter during the shifts. Which means, fast shift times and no slippage...

If you read the article on the new GM/Ford 10-speed auto, you saw that the shifts are ca 26-27% quicker than on a PDK (Porsche double clutch). This makes sense as the band type clutches are easier to operate in engagement/disengagement than the rather heavy/bulky clutches that is present on a DCT/manual transmission.

So, there is no mechanical design issues that should prevent a automatic transmission from having as fast shifts (or indeed faster as proven by the GM/Ford 10-speed) as a DCT/PDK type transmission. And with lock up available in every gear on the M5, no slippage in the torque converter either. This makes for a solution with the possibility of just as quick (or quicker) shifts as in a DCT. As well as the possibilty of no slip during shifts since the torque converter has lock up in every gear.

I suspect that the torque converter will only be unlocked when taking off from a standstill (just like on a DCT/manual when you have clutch slippage to avoid a jerky start) and during shifts when the car is in one of the comfort modes.

They might have to allow for some slip during WOT shifts to avoid breaking the drivetrain in AWD mode (just like you have a certain amount of slip on a DCT in the milliseconds it takes for the clutch to engage).

[M3 Number 86]

does it really need an s2k start button? lol