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Originally Posted by miamiten
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Originally Posted by Phatcat
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Originally Posted by miamiten
I have no issue with and understandably see how an unsubstantiated Nordschleife time for an F10 CP with M Driver's Package of under 7:30 is delusional. At the same time, M Driver's Package is the key difference. A non-CP with it will do better than a CP without. There are 3 sections where the normal 250 km/h limiter can be hit with an F10 M5. Two of these are fairly long stretches. The longest of the two will even hit the M Driver's Pack 320km/h limiter. This can easily shed 10sec off. The course is so long and diverse that significant amounts of time can be gained or lost, 1/10th to 1sec+ at a time. Doing so requires a bit of work. Also helps when the driver is about 40kg soaking wet.
On the other topic, the X5M isn't a little heavier, it's almost 207kg more than the M760i (DIN-DIN). It also has 20% more frontal area and almost 30% more aerodynamic drag. The M760i and S63 (LWB) have the exact same curb weight (4806lbs), tiny aerodynamic advantage for the BMW, yet the S63 consistently produces performance numbers within spitting distance of the much heavier X5M/X6M. If the Bentley Continental GT3-R can pull off an 11.54 @ 122.1 with a slightly higher weight, much more drag above 110km/h, and less BHP/Torque available, why would 2.9 mph more be unimaginable for the slippery BMW?
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Let me get this straight, so you are saying the reason all those M5 CP times are slow because they don't have the M driver's package? First of all, the M5 CP that SA tested has the M driver's package. Secondly, BMW said M5 ran 7:55, while Max Ahme (responsible for chassis development at M GmbH) said M5 CP is 10 sec. faster, so that would put it at 7:45.
I am surprised BMW didn't use you as their test driver, you could do 7:39 while not even familiar with track. If you drive the M4 GTS, I bet you can crack 7:20.
I am a reasonable man, I don't mind proven wrong, but despite all the technical jargons you threw out there, I am still not seeing any hard evidence to support your claims. I hope at least some magazines will get their hands on the 760 and we will see if it can trap 125+. |
No I'm saying there are variables to what times have been recorded by journalists and the numbers BMW have claimed.
BMW time of 7:55 is with a standard car. No CP, No M Driver's Pack. The statement CP is 10 sec faster is just with CP. AMS tests are consistent and substantiate the claim. They're just a bit slower over all. The first F10 M5 time of 8:05 was with an MDP equipped car. The M5 CP also had MDP and did 7:54 (11 sec faster). Horst also had 2 passengers in the car on both occasions (he always has at least one). He doesn't push hard in the more complex sections nor can he drive certain sections as quickly as possible if he wanted to.
You claim to be reasonable but want to hit back with childish statements. No I wouldn't do a 7:20 in an M4 GTS, nor would I ever expressly claim or imply I could. The 7:28 lap was about spot on. There isn't very much more to get from it; .5sec maybe at the most. I in fact frequently do evaluative driving for several manufacturers including BMW. These sessions are not to see how fast I can do a lap, but in the case of BMW, to analyze the behavior of components my company provides. Pushing a car to the edge for the sake of time saving isn't necessary. I do push them, to and past their limits, but that requires a margin of safety to recover. When evaluating components that are both functional and aesthetic, it helps to cut some people out of the process. I can go straight from the car to the computer, make revisions to the CAD/CAM files, and send those along with my notes to design and engineering so they can make any needed additional revisions, sign off, rapid prototype, send the revised components over, and typically only a final evaluation session is needed. Rarely do we encounter multiple revisions.
It's really too soon for debating. It's a time to be intrigued and look forward to some astonishing feats of engineering. The days of widespread, traditional, carnal emotion, are numbered and these may be some of the very last cars to provide it. |
How is my statement childish? You claimed you can drive the M5 CP around 7:39, which is faster than BMW themselves claimed, all the while you said you are not even familiar with the ring. So if BMW were to give you the M4 GTS to drive, why wouldn't you crack 7:20? Provided that you get familiar with the track?
And how do you know BMW's 7:55 time doesn't have M driver's package? BMW never said so, and why would any manufacturer use a speed limited car to set the ring time? You are not even making any sense.
But I do agree with you on one thing, the days of these types of cars are numbered.