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      02-05-2023, 03:22 PM   #42
Patton250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
That is what you want to read into it, of course.

There is obviously a threshold where where the situation flips from you screwing up or being unprepared to you being taken advantage of. Some situations are quite murky, but to me it boils down to some combination of intent and rate of occurrence. If the intent is malicious, as it is in this case, it's clearly a scam and the victims are victims. If you are purposely rushed through signing 20 pages of papers and walk out thinking you own the car, it's pretty clear. Being tripped by a hole in the sidewalk might be your fault for not looking down, but if some asshole kids did it on purpose in a shaded area I'd say you are mostly absolved. Even if a utility didn't mean to do it, but ends up breaking 20 ankles, it's probably their fault. It's about the reasonable expectation.

Your tax scenario is interesting. I don't think the IRS is trying to purposely trap you, so it's your fault. Again, it depends. If 75% of Americans make the same mistake, I would say that the problem lies with the tax code. In software, if most of your users are making the same user error, it's bad design not the fault of the user.
If you murder someone, the prosecutor has to prove your guilt. So, in other words, you are innocent until proven guilty. If the IRS comes after you, you have to prove your innocence. In other words, you are guilty until you prove your innocence. Even the most pro IRS peeps, won’t argue with what I just said.

I think we should prosecute scammers. They are very bad people. However, if you just sign 20 pieces of paper without reading them, you are now partially responsible for the scam. In my opinion. I guess I was just raised differently. It never really occurs to me to blame other people for the circumstances I put myself in. Maybe I should start doing that. You know, jump on the bandwagon?
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