[MSCD]

Did it 'fart' at the Mercedes truck at 1:22 in the first video?

Sounds great under power.

[MistaVauros]

It is for this very reason that I'm switching to Porsche. I gave up manual for dual-clutch, but I REFUSE to give up dual-clutch for traditional auto. At least with dual-clutch you still get some semblance of driving a manual minus the clutch of course. Porsche will eventually phase out manuals at some point within the next 5-years, but I honestly doubt that they will trade in the PDK for the ZF, as that would alienate a lot of customers. Hell, even for Lamborghini and Ferrari that would be blasphemous, and they both killed manuals a decade ago.

[Hymiet]

Originally Posted by VAUROS

It is for this very reason that I'm switching to Porsche. I gave up manual for dual-clutch, but I REFUSE to give up dual-clutch for traditional auto. At least with dual-clutch you still get some semblance of driving a manual minus the clutch of course. Porsche will eventually phase out manuals at some point within the next 5-years, but I honestly doubt that they will trade in the PDK for the ZF, as that would alienate a lot of customers. Hell, even for Lamborghini and Ferrari that would be blasphemous, and they both killed manuals a decade ago.

Ditto

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by VAUROS

I gave up manual for dual-clutch, but I REFUSE to give up dual-clutch for traditional auto. At least with dual-clutch you still get some semblance of driving a manual minus the clutch of course.

just curious how you get some semblance of driving a manual while driving a dual clutch? when i gave up manual for DCT and PDK i definitely did NOT feel like that satisfied any of the manual driving experience. it's COOL, it's FAST, and okay in a mechanical sense it has clutches but as a driver the involvement is gone which is the point of a manual, yeah?

not wanting to argue but just curious about your perspective, thanks!

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

My goodness the DCT loss is a huge issue

While Porsche has developed a 8 speed DCT, BMW M will move to the 8 speed? WTF!!!

There is a significant difference in feel between a DCT and a torque converter automatic. It's apparent in the first mile of driving a car.

It isn't as big a deal as loss of the NA engine, but still, it's significant.

The M5 has always been well received and even turbocharged it gave the Panamera a good run. DCT is a part of this.

What a fail. Seriously. Ugh

+1. but i would add that 8,9 and 10 speeds make for a very disengaging feel. Only diesel trucks that pulls heavy loads and have a 2000 rpm redline need that many gears. With all the DCT cars making 400 hp + and turbo torque they could save some weight by making a 5 speed with a tall 6th for cruising. Am i the only one that feels this way?

[Bosozoku]

Whoever the driver is, s/he is carving some big, beautiful, fast lines.
Probably not 10/10th, but still all-business zero-Hollywood.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

just curious how you get some semblance of driving a manual while driving a dual clutch? when i gave up manual for DCT and PDK i definitely did NOT feel like that satisfied any of the manual driving experience. it's COOL, it's FAST, and okay in a mechanical sense it has clutches but as a driver the involvement is gone which is the point of a manual, yeah?

not wanting to argue but just curious about your perspective, thanks!

Curious here too.
To me, DCT and 8AT have the same (total lack of) feel.

P.S. All this DCT vs. 8AT flamebait reminds me of a quote:
"You're not good enough to get mad." - half the golf caddies who have ever lived

[Hymiet]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

Curious here too.
To me, DCT and 8AT have the same (total lack of) feel.

Manual = old cobra (woohoo!)
DCT = Formula One Feel (super fast changes)
Auto = every Mercedes and Vette on the road. (Boo!)

Auto = shame to M Brand and lost interest by loyal BMW folks.

I would add that rowing gears gets exhausting in certain metros. I love DCT, had the first gen SMG and loved that too. Little clunky, but still faster than my ADD brain and abilities.

Give me an old Cobra or an Ferrari and I will row gears all day. In 2017... real world and daily use, I will take the DCT every time.

I have a 2015 M3 and have 3 boys. Need the extra doors and hands.

[MistaVauros]

I guess what I mean is that with DCT it still pays to understand gearing, proper shift points (up and down) within the rev band, etc. Also, with most DCTs, you still get to shift with the lever in the center console (except for the GTR). I test drove a Quadrifoglio and that ZF paddle shifter tranny did not feel as fast or engaging as a true DCT.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by Hymiet

Manual = old cobra (woohoo!)
DCT = Formula One Feel (super fast changes)
Auto = every Mercedes and Vette on the road. (Boo!)

Auto = shame to M Brand and lost interest by loyal BMW folks.

I would add that rowing gears gets exhausting in certain metros. I love DCT, had the first gen SMG and loved that too. Little clunky, but still faster than my ADD brain and abilities.

Give me an old Cobra or an Ferrari and I will row gears all day. In 2017... real world and daily use, I will take the DCT every time.

I have a 2015 M3 and have 3 boys. Need the extra doors and hands.

I have little boys & I did enjoy my DCT but it still has the same amount of involvement as the auto. that's not bad for all people in all situations (I'm not a guy who only buys manual cars), but driving a manual is fun and a DCT/PDK doesn't satisfy in the same way. the original post I responded to said that the auto kills the manual Trans experience whereas the DCT retains some of that experience ... he may have misspoke ...

[vladislav]

DCT is more robust than auto, whatever BMW says about ( they know it). In DCT you just change the clutches ( fundamentally it is manual) , however auto just breaks and you need to repair it. Morever in applications like 600 hp + spirited driving awd makes it even worse , because tires do not spin, all load will be put on torque converter which is well-known is not very suitable for high perfomance cars...
P.S. Drift is deferred death for auto

[mundo74]

if we are going to be stuck with slushboxes in m cars then make it a bit interesting bmw. give us e-drive with say a 15-20mi range and use it the get "green" when you want and also add a extra 100+ hp/tq on the fly.

[PARTS@STBMW]

This is awesome!

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

Curious here too.
To me, DCT and 8AT have the same (total lack of) feel.

P.S. All this DCT vs. 8AT flamebait reminds me of a quote:
"You're not good enough to get mad." - half the golf caddies who have ever lived

That's actually a great way to put it.

[brianeck]

Well that fully opens up the E63s to me now knowing that it is a more modern transmission (wet clutch). I love my F80 6MT I sure as hell am gonna miss it.

[Motorboat411]

Any pics of the Instrument Cluster?

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS

Probably V8 with turbos..might even be eletric ones.

Sic

[Jason]

Updated May 16, 2017

The F90 M5 reveal is imminent and that means the prototype has begun dropping camo aggressively. Just spotted at the Nurburgring is this M5 prototype revealing its front bumper design. It's consistent with the previously leaked CAD images, which we then used to render the F90 M5 in all its glory (see images in gallery). Stay tuned as the next couple of weeks will bring the first journalist reviews of the pre-production M5.

Further confirmed info on the F90 M5 can be seen in the previous updates below and at http://www.bimmerpost.com/f90-m5/.

BMW F90 M5 Drops Some Camo

[ec126]

[RACEM4TE]

Tomorrow is the Reveal/ Pre Prod Drives. Picture by Pitkis

[kozzi]

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by RACEM4TE

Tomorrow is the Reveal/ Pre Prod Drives. Picture by Pitkis

This is relevant to my interests.