[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

Extract from the Car and Driver article:

It’s a week after the Dodge Challenger SRT Demon debuted, and it is still blowing up the internet. Its specs have already been tattooed on the faces of more than a few of Mopar’s faithful. But Dirk Hacker, vice president of engineering at BMW’s M division, hasn’t heard word one about America’s newest and most powerful muscle car.

“How much power?” he asks.

“840 horsepower.”

He nods. “Does it have a manual transmission?”

“Automatic only,” we say.

“All-wheel drive?”

“Nope, rear-wheel drive.”

He takes another sip from his drink. “Maybe my son has heard of it,” he says with more than a hint of derision. “He likes American performance cars.”

Frankly, this is a bit insulting and arrogant from a company official that has not made a supercar since the original M1. At least the Americans are not afraid to make exciting cars such as the Demon, but also proper supercars like the new ford GT, Corvette Z06 and others... Not to mention that company, FCA, owns the most prestigious brand of all, Ferrari.

Arrogant and pompous. Demon is the fastest production car in the world. Dirk Hacker either lives under a rock and doesn't know even his own industry, or he's insecure.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by c63er

Sounds interesting. Although car and drivers comment that the steering feel was less then the panamera was a bit disheartening. Overall if it is an improvement over the f10 then welcome news.

I've read all the reviews and most say that the steering is lighter and offer more feel/feedback than the previous generation so maybe C and D are very picky...

[Jmpascual]

Does the new M5 have air breathers behind the front wheels?

[HXS]

Kinda silly to stagger tire width by 10 mm... Why couldn't they run a square 285?

[damnitBobby]

I'm all for manual transmissions but in this segment manuals transmissions aren't suitable. You have a 4,000 pound luxury sedan with all kinds of electronic gadgets and differentials. If I'm driving this boat it better damn well shift itself.

After reading about it I think I would rather save $40-50k and buy a CPO '16 M5 comp package.

[c63er]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

I've read all the reviews and most say that the steering is lighter and offer more feel/feedback than the previous generation so maybe C and D are very picky...

Let's hope so. Looking forward to driving it

[MilehighM3]

Car and Driver calls the F10 a double clutch automatic. I laugh because most of the people crying about an auto cannot explain the difference in functionality between the double clutch and an automatic. Apparently the writers on this review just put both terms together and don't realize it themselves. I am excited to drive the car personally. The X5M/X6M does drive very clutch to a DCT from a shift quality standpoint and most consumers can't tell difference.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

No way.

The system was designed as a piece. No way that they are going to be able to have that type of coordination between the diffs and AWD with a manual in there.

Yes way, in engineering there is always a way. They simply have to retune all the algorithms to exclude automatic shifting (come to think of it the capability already exists from when you put the tranny in manual mode), and account for the different gearing in a manual tranny with just 6 gears as opposed to 8.

It's hard no doubt, but possible. And I don't believe for a second they will do it.


I wasn't in the market anyway, too much of a whale anyway.

[adc]

Originally Posted by MilehighM3

Car and Driver calls the F10 a double clutch automatic. I laugh because most of the people crying about an auto cannot explain the difference in functionality between the double clutch and an automatic. Apparently the writers on this review just put both terms together and don't realize it themselves. I am excited to drive the car personally. The X5M/X6M does drive very clutch to a DCT from a shift quality standpoint and most consumers can't tell difference.

Maybe M cars shouldn't be for most consumers.

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by adc

Maybe M cars shouldn't be for most consumers.

yes. the m550 is for most buyers.

[DarthColin]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

And in 2WD mode there won't be any traction control and stability system!

Let's be honest, anyone intentionally going into 2WD mode isn't really planning on making any use of any traction control system, are they?

[InsideMan]

Originally Posted by ReeferCheefer

wow no manual trans? with that being said, im out.

Take care!

[FastLaneJB]

Originally Posted by HXS

Kinda silly to stagger tire width by 10 mm... Why couldn't they run a square 285?

Saw one article say its square on the 19 inch wheels, 275 front and back. Only 20's aren't square.

Originally Posted by mvigod

I want to see them bring all the bells, whistles and tech from the current 5 range into the M's. I know sometimes certain things they don't offer on the M's.

Fully agree and I think we might be OK for the most part there as you can clearly see the radar on the front grill. Active Cruise Control wasn't an option on the F10 M5. Unless of course this is because it's not got the final front of the car and it doesn't do anything on the test cars but I'm quietly hopeful.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Crap! So much reading. So little time! Thank you!!

Edit: Fuck, seriously?! 220lbs lighter than the F10 M5? I now eat humble pie.

I would put down that piece of humber pie, until we see real world weight figures. We all know BMW weights have been a little off as of late.

If Motor Trend weighs in a new awd M5 less than the 2013 M5 comp pack they weighed in at 4,369...I will be surprised. I just don't see that happening.

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by adc

Maybe M cars shouldn't be for most consumers.

I couldn't agree more.
Cheers

[Amnizu]

I am by no means a M purist, but frankly I just don't get this car.

If they wanted to compete with Porsche and Mercedes for sport line awd executive cars why not just offer a choice of xdrive or RWD. This certainly had to be less expensive than the engineering effort required to create this drive train. Plus it would probably still allow for a DCT and or Manual.

It looks like its the end of the road for RWD beefed up German executive saloons.

[michal12]

They are saying 0-100km/h in 3.3sec!

Originally Posted by kgroschi

You forgot this Video by Auto Bild

[m3rxn]

so sweet

[SliChillax]

Originally Posted by swagon

450hp M4 has 285's in the rear.
600hp M5 has 285's in the rear, too.

It's gonna be a hot mess in RWD mode.

Well that's why you also have AWD mode. AWD for traction, RWD for letting loose, what's the problem here?

Originally Posted by HXS

Kinda silly to stagger tire width by 10 mm... Why couldn't they run a square 285?

More road noise, worse fuel consumption.

[SFT33]

As the current owner of an E28, E34, E60 and F10 M5 and an E63s Mercedes wagon - the move to AWD/gimmicky 2WD mode and the inclusion of a traditional autobox really makes me think M is headed in the wrong direction. The M5 always distinguished itself as the only car in its class with a manual/smg/dct. It was different than anything else on the road. Now - it's just one the boys. Sure - they will pick up customers in cold weather regions with AWD which I have no problem with - they are a business. However - dropping the DCT just sickens me. This also means the next M3/M4 is going to go the same route. Sad.

[RABAUKE]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle35004260/

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by Amnizu

I am by no means a M purist, but frankly I just don't get this car.

If they wanted to compete with Porsche and Mercedes for sport line awd executive cars why not just offer a choice of xdrive or RWD. This certainly had to be less expensive than the engineering effort required to create this drive train. Plus it would probably still allow for a DCT and or Manual.

It looks like its the end of the road for RWD beefed up German executive saloons.

The drivetrain complexity involves tuning the AWD system, not making it RWD. They're just programming the transfer case to send all power to the rear. From a manufacturing perspective this makes it cheaper not having to run 2 models on the line as well.

The lack of DCT/Manual seems to show that BMW is not willing to invest developing/sourcing a transmission capable of handling that much power. Especially with a manual since the take rate is so low. I'd be curious to see how many people complained if they drove this and an F10 DCT back to back. None of the reviews posted so far seem to be missing the DCT.