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      12-03-2017, 07:21 PM   #23
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Ah, there it is. The ONE PROBLEM i was afraid the shift from DCT -> ZF8 would have. In the third video with autogehful, when he launches the car, the car preshifts at 5.8k RPM rather than going all the way to redline in first gear. Whenever you drive the car in manual mode, you will 100% of the time bog the car as it will never allow you to hit redline in first gear.
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      12-03-2017, 07:36 PM   #24
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Agreed 100%. The more I see this bullshit the more I understand people shifting to other brands. The last M5 I really loved was the E60. The F10 was a boat and this one is a computer on steroids.
The car just looks (and appears) to be uninspired. Besides the RWD —> AWD switch, there doesn’t seem like there’s much to get excited about. Perhaps that option will be worth it to those in this market.
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      12-03-2017, 08:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by DocWeatherington View Post
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Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
I don't think steering will be fixed and exhaust is fixable at all. Thru F80/82/87 revisions, BMW already know how to make electronic steering a little better. M5 being what it is now is BMW's intention.
Your forgetting the steering is all coding. No reason it won't be fixed, its marketing 101. The reason why they will have the CP, CS or whatever upgraded versions.

If Porsche can do EPS correctly, no reason why BMW can't. I bet you 20 USD that as the editions come out the car will improve.

The last and current gen M5, M3 its always been the CP is how it should have come from the factory.

Now out with the CP please, quickly so you can take my money.
Why sandbag the higher volume model for a lower volume, marginally higher margin model?

I don't buy this.
I dunno. We on this forum are guilty of turnover. Maybe that's what they are going for. Hurts the used market but turns over more M cars at dealers. They are breaking sales records after all. Just come over to the M2 forum where the N55 model is already trash that needs to be discarded for a less daily driveable, more peaky, heavier, more expensive, worse sounding S55.
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      12-03-2017, 08:01 PM   #26
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I find it funny how everyone is talking about fixes for the car in the higher performing versions...why bother releasing an m5 then?
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      12-03-2017, 08:14 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by guarnibl View Post
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Originally Posted by asiflicious View Post
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Originally Posted by DocWeatherington View Post
Is it safe to say


M is back?



I think the steering complaints and sound will be corrected with the CS and updated... higher performance versions
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Originally Posted by DocWeatherington View Post
Is it safe to say


M is back?



I think the steering complaints and sound will be corrected with the CS and updated... higher performance versions
That's ridiculous, the car should already have great steering and sound. BMW needs to start doing things right the first time
How's the M2 steering compare ? I'm just not sure it's BMWs intention to do steering different than what's given here. Which if the case is probably a bummer. It was a big complaint of mine on the M4.
I don't have an M2, I have a 135i. The 135i has fantastic steering
The M2 has great steering the m235/240i's not so much.
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      12-03-2017, 08:18 PM   #28
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I just sat in the F90 M5 at the LA Autoshow. Best thing I liked about the new M5 over the previous one: the Bowers and Wilkins Sound System. It is hands down a superior system to the Bang and Olufsen. Sadly the rest of the car did not excite me. The digital instrument cluster was cool. The seat was a little more comfortable and supportive than the F10 M5 seat. I played around with iDrive M xDrive settings.

From probably one if the worlds biggest M5 fans, I am let down by the new M5, but I guess I'll need to also drive it before I can reach a final verdict. Also the wheels actually look pretty good in person, but I hate the laziness they took in designing the side view mirrors.

I look forward to the M8.
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      12-03-2017, 08:23 PM   #29
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Sounds decent so far. Waiting for the head to heads!

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      12-03-2017, 08:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
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Originally Posted by Roundown View Post
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Originally Posted by DocWeatherington View Post
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Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
I don't think steering will be fixed and exhaust is fixable at all. Thru F80/82/87 revisions, BMW already know how to make electronic steering a little better. M5 being what it is now is BMW's intention.
Your forgetting the steering is all coding. No reason it won't be fixed, its marketing 101. The reason why they will have the CP, CS or whatever upgraded versions.

If Porsche can do EPS correctly, no reason why BMW can't. I bet you 20 USD that as the editions come out the car will improve.

The last and current gen M5, M3 its always been the CP is how it should have come from the factory.

Now out with the CP please, quickly so you can take my money.
Why sandbag the higher volume model for a lower volume, marginally higher margin model?

I don't buy this.
I dunno. We on this forum are guilty of turnover. Maybe that's what they are going for. Hurts the used market but turns over more M cars at dealers. They are breaking sales records after all. Just come over to the M2 forum where the N55 model is already trash that needs to be discarded for a less daily driveable, more peaky, heavier, more expensive, worse sounding S55.
Forum members turn over these cars, but they're likely a small portion of the overall ownership.
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      12-03-2017, 08:54 PM   #31
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Even after the reviews, there is still nothing about this car that makes me want it. It just seems so boring. Don't get me wrong, the interior is beautiful but the tech is essentially the same as every other car in its price range so there is nothing special about that either. The S63 just feels like old hat to me. Even with my tuned F10 it never really had that special character and I had no trouble parting with it.

Sadly, I'm still waiting for something from the M divison that makes me feel the way I used to in my past M cars. I remember being so excited about what was coming next. Now I find myself looking for reasons why to stay with the brand. Maybe the M2 is as good as it gets now for that special feeling.
Was thinking the same thing. The reviews and car just seemed so blahh. The steering deal was a big knock on the car. Dont think I'll be getting one of these in a few years if the steering is as dead as they say
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      12-03-2017, 08:58 PM   #32
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Thanks for posting this compilation! About as expected. Without getting into the controversies about the auto box, no MT, and 4WD, I'm glad that M has kept the tradition of the Q-ship alive with the 6th generation M5. As multiple reviews stated, you can park it wherever, and only those in the know will understand. That has always been the beauty of an M5...
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      12-03-2017, 09:39 PM   #33
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Amazing... just wish they differentiated the body a bit more from the F10.
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      12-03-2017, 09:46 PM   #34
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So basically the intangibles that make for a good M car, this boat lacks. As expected.

Next.
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      12-03-2017, 09:56 PM   #35
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So much negativity, this car is awesome.
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      12-03-2017, 10:30 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I dunno. We on this forum are guilty of turnover. Maybe that's what they are going for. Hurts the used market but turns over more M cars at dealers. They are breaking sales records after all. Just come over to the M2 forum where the N55 model is already trash that needs to be discarded for a less daily driveable, more peaky, heavier, more expensive, worse sounding S55.
Wait a second. Your car has the S65 engine, and you're saying the S55 is less daily driveable and more peaky? The S55 is the polar opposite of peaky (pulls way harder than either the S65 or N55 literally at any rpm up to the 7600 redline), it weighs less than the S65 (even with turbos), and of course it is more expensive (because it is far beefed up and much more powerful than an N55). Not sure about any weight difference either way between the N55 and S55, but the S55 clearly has a massively greater power-to-weight ratio vs. the N55. So even if the S55 were to weigh 10 lbs more, who cares about any negligible weight difference when the power and durability is at a completely different level...

Sound has not been the S55's strong suit - but an M Performance Exhaust completely fixes that issue and transforms the experience.

The N55 just does not even remotely compare to the S55. The stock S65 beats the stock S55 in sound, and that is it (I have over 80,000 miles on my E93, almost 60k on my F80, and now just upgraded to the F80 ZCP with the M Performance Exhaust). I wouldn't have gone back to the E9x from my "civic" F80, and the F80 with ZCP and M Performance Exhaust truly moves the game ahead to yet another level (you should really try one)...

I've driven countless loaner vehicles with the N55 - N55 is not even in the same universe as the S55.
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      12-03-2017, 10:34 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I dunno. We on this forum are guilty of turnover. Maybe that's what they are going for. Hurts the used market but turns over more M cars at dealers. They are breaking sales records after all. Just come over to the M2 forum where the N55 model is already trash that needs to be discarded for a less daily driveable, more peaky, heavier, more expensive, worse sounding S55.
Wait a second. Your car has the S65 engine, and you're saying the S55 is less daily driveable and more peaky? The S55 is the polar opposite of peaky (pulls way harder than either the S65 or N55 literally at any rpm up to the 7600 redline), it weighs less than the S65 (even with turbos), and of course it is more expensive (because it is far beefed up and much more powerful than an N55). Not sure about any weight difference either way between the N55 and S55, but the S55 clearly has a massively greater power-to-weight ratio vs. the N55. So even if the S55 were to weigh 10 lbs more, who cares about any negligible weight difference when the power and durability is at a completely different level...

Sound has not been the S55's strong suit - but an M Performance Exhaust completely fixes that issue and transforms the experience.

The N55 just does not even remotely compare to the S55. The stock S65 beats the stock S55 in sound, and that is it (I have over 80,000 miles on my E93, almost 60k on my F80, and now just upgraded to the F80 ZCP with the M Performance Exhaust). I wouldn't have gone back to the E9x from my "civic" F80, and the F80 with ZCP and M Performance Exhaust truly moves the game ahead to yet another level (you should really try one)...

I've driven countless loaner vehicles with the N55 - N55 is not even in the same universe as the S55.
I haven't updated my profile actually. I sold my M3 after our local track shut down. I found it less than ideal for the street. I don't like a peaky motor anymore as it doesn't serve me well outside of track duty or open empty highways.

Regarding the S55 you can throw all the facts you want at me, but I can get that from journalists. As for being in the same universe, the N55 in the M2 is definitely of the same breed but I found it significantly less laggy though ran out of breath at the top end. I went into the dealership sure I'd buy an M3 but in the end the S55 didn't grab me. Glad I didn't end up with it. Granted I hear the early models weren't quite as good and the zcp is transformative (though they said that about the e92 and it wasn't ). But I really hated my test drive.

Your durability comment is a little reckless given we have significantly more data on the N55 and so far it seems to be smooth sailing. Having owned 11 BMWs I can tell you durability certainly isn't only related to the specs of the components. The S55 has been good so far but we can't say its more or less durable. Actually the N55 in the M2 seems to be taking all people can throw at it if temps are kept in check.

Sorry but even with an exhaust the S55 sounds like garbage. objectively. I don't even know how it made it past engineering. I have heard one in person and no. You gotta be a fanboy.
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      12-03-2017, 10:45 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
I just sat in the F90 M5 at the LA Autoshow. Best thing I liked about the new M5 over the previous one: the Bowers and Wilkins Sound System. It is hands down a superior system to the Bang and Olufsen. Sadly the rest of the car did not excite me. The digital instrument cluster was cool. The seat was a little more comfortable and supportive than the F10 M5 seat. I played around with iDrive M xDrive settings.

From probably one if the worlds biggest M5 fans, I am let down by the new M5, but I guess I'll need to also drive it before I can reach a final verdict. Also the wheels actually look pretty good in person, but I hate the laziness they took in designing the side view mirrors.

I look forward to the M8.
I actually was kind of the opposite.... I've been 0% excited about this car and after sitting in it at the LA auto show I started convincing myself it was time for another trip to Germany for an M5. I loved the new blue, interior and seats were great, styling seemed way more natural and less forced in person. Rims are an abomination to me and I'm not an aftermarket rim guy so that bums me out a bit but other than that I left way more excited about the car vs where I was coming in....
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      12-03-2017, 10:46 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I dunno. We on this forum are guilty of turnover. Maybe that's what they are going for. Hurts the used market but turns over more M cars at dealers. They are breaking sales records after all. Just come over to the M2 forum where the N55 model is already trash that needs to be discarded for a less daily driveable, more peaky, heavier, more expensive, worse sounding S55.
Wait a second. Your car has the S65 engine, and you're saying the S55 is less daily driveable and more peaky? The S55 is the polar opposite of peaky (pulls way harder than either the S65 or N55 literally at any rpm up to the 7600 redline), it weighs less than the S65 (even with turbos), and of course it is more expensive (because it is far beefed up and much more powerful than an N55). Not sure about any weight difference either way between the N55 and S55, but the S55 clearly has a massively greater power-to-weight ratio vs. the N55. So even if the S55 were to weigh 10 lbs more, who cares about any negligible weight difference when the power and durability is at a completely different level...

Sound has not been the S55's strong suit - but an M Performance Exhaust completely fixes that issue and transforms the experience.

The N55 just does not even remotely compare to the S55. The stock S65 beats the stock S55 in sound, and that is it (I have over 80,000 miles on my E93, almost 60k on my F80, and now just upgraded to the F80 ZCP with the M Performance Exhaust). I wouldn't have gone back to the E9x from my "civic" F80, and the F80 with ZCP and M Performance Exhaust truly moves the game ahead to yet another level (you should really try one)...

I've driven countless loaner vehicles with the N55 - N55 is not even in the same universe as the S55.
I haven't updated they actually. I sold my M3 after our local track shut down. I found it less than ideal for the street. I don't like a peaky motor anymore.

Regarding the S55 you can throw all the facts you want at me, but I can get that from journalists. As for being in the same universe, the N55 in the M2 is definitely of the same breed but I found it significantly less laggy though ran out of breath at the top end. I went into the dealership sure I'd buy an M3 but in the end the S55 didn't grab me. Glad I didn't end up with it. Granted I hear the early models weren't quite as good and the zcp is transformative (though they said that about the e92 and it wasn't ). But I really hated my test drive.

Your durability comment is a little reckless given we have significantly more data on the N55 and so far it seems to be smooth sailing.

Sorry but even with an exhaust the S55 sounds like garbage. objectively. I don't even know how it made it past engineering.
Sound is purely subjective - that being said - an S55 with MPE is simply amazing. As you acknowledge - the N55 has more data - solely due to more years being out and a much larger volume of vehicles. Read the press release for the F80/F82 and refresh your memory as to the numerous ways in which the S55 is upgraded over an N55.

One thing I do agree with you on though - you're not going to change my mind on the S55 - that engine has completely won me over.
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      12-03-2017, 10:49 PM   #40
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Here's a Canadian review of the F90:

http://www.canadianautoreview.ca/rev...18-bmw-m5.html

They also put up a pretty great exhaust note video for those of you wondering what this new M5 sounds like:


Last edited by CarbonFibre; 12-04-2017 at 09:23 AM..
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      12-03-2017, 11:06 PM   #41
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I feel like a lot of negativity towards the new M5 is just unjustified until some proper reviews come out.

Most of them that i quickly checked out are still stuck of fake exhaust note and electric steering while BMW uses them for what 5 - 6years? And you easly get rid of sound problem with MPE or other manufacturer if you dont want to support BMW. M2 that is so higly praised has them aswell and everyone just forgets about it?

And i feel like most of the reviews for E63 just talk about how 4WD can act almost like RWD. BMW just does it better at first look.

The styling is just to each their own but i think they updated F10 look just enough to get rid of some bad angles.

And i feel like BMW does interiors right at this moment with digital display but still have that simple controls of the iDrive.

And at first glance it looks like a lot of people are saying E63 has that harsh ride even in comfort setting meanwhile that hasnt been a problem with M adaptive suspension.

I think we need to wait for some proper reviews comparing F90 to F10 and E63 and we will see. So far to me it looks like F90 does everything just a little bit better than the competition. Also are this reviews without the M performance styling and exhaust right?
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      12-04-2017, 01:22 AM   #42
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Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (((myzmak))) View Post
Sounds like they have done a cut and paste job of the initial F8X reviews.


Nobody likes the sonic enhancement. All car journos want 8 cylinders. Blah. Blah. Blah.

But oh yeah it's also a fantastic car that drives superbly.

It would be nice if the initial reviewing cadre could get past the car they used to love at some other time (nostalgia) and learn to love the car that is there.
Agreed. People are so caught up with idea of wanting it to be extreme that they forget that it needs to be everyday luxurious as well. This is a job for other Ms in the range.

I own an M2 and love its rawness, but at the end of long day in traffic, it is almost a pain. I welcome having an M5 where I can have 2 worlds to look forward too which is what I suspect most customers want.
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      12-04-2017, 01:25 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocWeatherington View Post
Is it safe to say


M is back?



I think the steering complaints and sound will be corrected with the CS and updated... higher performance versions
I don't think steering will be fixed and exhaust is fixable at all. Thru F80/82/87 revisions, BMW already know how to make electronic steering a little better. M5 is what it is now is BMW's intention.
They are saving for the comp pack. Theres the garbage version and the real m5, which is the comp pack. I don't know why they even bother releasing this. Brand image is definitely something they don't care so much.
BMW have had near on 7-8 years to get electric steering feel sorted since the switch from hydraulic. If it was going to be sorted it would have been for this release. I suspect the need to have a lighter feel for a heavy car in non-spirited daily driving is taking precedence.

Porsche (from what I've read) seem to be the only company who've nailed feel from EPS. Might I suggest BMW buy a few and work out how (?)
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      12-04-2017, 02:27 AM   #44
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"The electric steering is much better this time around and while it’s 25% quicker, the weight also builds up nicely under rotation and feels much more linear."

http://www.canadianautoreview.ca/rev...18-bmw-m5.html
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